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tina_colley44

HELP! We are in the process of building our dream bathroom. Should we

Tina Colley
hace 6 años
Is this acceptable at the base of a shower? My contractor claims the Durock need not be sealed.
keep going?
remove it and start over?
Respuesta destacada
  • PRO
    Creative Tile Eastern CT
    hace 6 años
    Última modificación: hace 6 años

    Tina. Disregard nicole__ 100% false comment.

    Comentarios (32)

    • nicole___
      hace 6 años

      In the "real" world of tile setters on the job site, people DO NOT seal durarock.

    • User
      hace 6 años

      No waterproofing equals a do over. That’s the real world. And TCNA standards. Have him argue with the industry bible.

    • jmm1837
      hace 6 años
      nicole - in the real world of qualified/qualified tile setters, people waterproof their showers. I don't like showering in colanders myself.
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Regardless if it is Durock or Hardi backer, always waterproof. I waterproof several phases of a shower installation, because I never take chances and besides the minimal cost of waterproofing is worth the peace of mind of knowing it is watertight. I also take photos on the progress of my work, to show my homeowners the steps I take, which makes them feel better.

      Sorry, but the messy workmanship with the thinset on the tiles, is a sign of a sloppy worker. The spacing of the tiles are terrible, which may result in the large grout spaces overpowering the tiles aesthetics. If I were you, I would keep an eye on your contractor and tile setter. Good luck.

    • palimpsest
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      I would say in "the real world" Nicole is at least partly right.

      In my area bathrooms will pass inspection with non-waterproofed Durock/Hardibacker (or even Greenboard) under vertical surfaces. The seams only will be sealed, and greenboard usually passes for bath shower combos where the the tub height provides at least some protection.

      But a tiled shower floor still has waterproofing that extends up the vertical surfaces a bit.

      That's the real world in my area in new construction, non-custom building. (Despite the manufacturer's recommendations; our local code is written ambiguously. My SO just went through this with a builder for a buyer). And I think there are a fair number of failures.

      I have one alcove bathtub, in my basement, (used daily right now) that is Durock with sealed seams and fasteners but no membrane on the field of the Durock and the backside of the bathroom is exposed, and there is no evidence that water has ever infiltrated through the Durock. And I do check it. However we dry the tile after we take showers (to reduce cleaning maintenance) which may help.

      But I was a design consultant on a house (where I had nothing to do with the actual construction documents), and the shower in that master bathroom ended up leaking enough to rot the studs and exterior sheathing of the entire wall of the house. There was a big black square of rotten wood under the siding.

      That obviously was due to lack of waterproofing.

    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      We had another contractor in this morning that feels we should absolutely do a full tear out. He urged us to use the Schulter system. Given the option of that or partial demo leaving the full wall (removing bottom to waterproof properly) What is our better choice ? What is the opinion of our pro's?
    • palimpsest
      hace 6 años

      I'd probably start over. Most contractors will want to start over rather than taking over partly through as well.

    • PRO
      Creative Tile Eastern CT
      hace 6 años

      If the installer is familiar with Schluter Kerdi ask him to check out USG's shower system. Installs the same just a much better product. IMO. I've done countless Kerdi jobs and have no complaints. USG is simply better quality for less $$.

    • PRO
      Designer Drains
      hace 6 años

      i would start over.

    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Difficult to know with the limited pictures, but if the tile work is any indication, I would start from the beginning.

      Is it a walk-in or curbless shower?

      Is it on the ground level of 2nd floor?

      I would recommend the Wedi system. I have used it for several years. Here is the link: https://us.wedi.de/

      Good luck.

    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Heres an idea for spacers. Fold cardboard
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Tina, not sure where you reside, since some states and municipalities don't require a contractor to be licensed; but if you live in a place where a license is required, I hope you hired a licensed contractor. Even though having a license does not mean the contractor will perform properly and produce quality workmanship; but chances are better. Also having general liability insurance is important.

      I will guess that you posted the pictures for comments, so here you go:

      Pic. #1 - I will guess that that is a bench? The cut brown tile looks to be installed at an angle and not sitting flat.

      Pic. #2 - No idea what is happening in this pic, but I will guess that the red rosin paper is all wet. FYI, sometimes the red dye from the paper will stain the floor; which is why I don't use it. Use the brown paper, that is not dyed.

      Pic. #3 - Is there a reason a plug or at least a bundled rag is not in the shower drain? If debris (tile remnants, thinset etc...) falls in it may clog your drain over time, and you will not know the reason until it is too late.

      there should be a consistent gaps (1/8-inch max) between the tiles and the square drain, so there is room for either grout or 100% silicone caulk; otherwise it will eventually come loose. I always use 100% silicone caulk, since any movement may cause the grout to crack and pop out. 100% silicone caulk moves, so it will never crack.

      It looks as if the thinset is all over the tiles, and if it is not removed below the tiles, any thinset will be too high for the grout to take, and the thinset will protrude through the grout.

      Pic. #4 - Maybe your tile setter ran out of plastic shims or spacers. Never a good sign. The wall tile is actually sticking out farther than the one on the left.

      Not sure how much you have already spent, or what your contract states, but you may want to consider finding a new contractor. If you are not happy now, you may not be when it is finished. Sorry.


    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Im in Oregon Ohio. He claims to be licensed in Michigan. We got this far before realizing how bad his work was. The wet paper was his 10 gallons he spilled under the wet saw he used in the room. Left it to pour into new heat vent. Amazing how little he cared. The biggest issue remains the failed drain test and lack of waterproofing anything. He can’t continue this craziness here.
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Sorry, to hear that. I would check with your state of the validity of his license. Anyone can say they are licensed, but I would ask for a copy and also check the State of Ohio website to validate; and see if there has been any complaints filed. Every state has a Consumer and/or Commerce department to check on license holders.

      Here is the Ohio Department of Commerce OCILB eLicense Center's website: https://elicense4.com.ohio.gov/Lookup/LicenseLookup.aspx. 

      Depending on what is described on your written contract, I would stop all work and not pay him anymore, unless it states in the contract that all materials purchased for the project is to be paid for. I would then fire him based on his deficient work and possible damage he has done to your new heat vent. I would get your vent inspected for any damage, before paying him anything else,

      Sadly, it is "contractors" like him, who give our industry a bad name.

    • PRO
      Midwest Mosaic, Inc.
      hace 6 años

      TCNA wall tile in showers and tub receptors methods approve cement backer board, hardi type board, kerdi board, glass mat reinforced gypsum board and fiber reinforced gyp board. All for use in wet areas such as showers. of these, only kerdi board is water proof when properly detailed on the seams and screws.

      Drywall is not OK. Nor is moisture resistant mold resistant gypsum board.

      The methods above all indicate that the use of a waterproof membrane is optional provided the installer uses a vapor barrier on the wall studs and this laps over the pan liner. Plastic sheeting or Aquabar, or tar paper suffice as vapor barrier.

      IMO 70% of showers in my market are built improperly. Doomed to fail. Chances are yours will too. Find reputable installers though the NTCA website. Especially look for ones who have posses the CTI certification.

    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Ceiling of drywall held up 5x8 ft of porcelain tiles 16x16 using no glue and only 12 screws. No pre slope under the lining and screws coming through the rubber over 14 inch corner bench. I did let the guy go. Im out thousands and he’s not licensed. Please be careful who you hire.
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Tina,

      Glad you fired him, but you need to report him to the Ohio Department of Commerce OCILB eLicense Center, or he will continue to take advantage of other homeowners; which I am sure he has done and will continue to do.

      If you have anything in writing from him (contract, written receipt etc...), you may want to see if you can get all of some of your money in small claims court

      It is also good to remove all of his shoddy work and start from scratch. His poor tile work and messy job site was a sign of a non-professional who could care less.

      FYI, screws spacing for ceilings are supposed to be every 6-inches. Speaking only for myself, if we install tiles on ceiling, which I particularly don't like to do, we will always use either two 1/4-inch or one 1/2-inch Hardi backer boards, but we also will either add additional ceiling joists to make it 12-inches on center or add 3/4- plywood. Some contractors might say it is not necessary and what I do is more than what is required by code; but the thing to remember is the code is only the minimum required; so you can always exceed the minimum code.

      Not sure if you have one, but you may want to check with your Home Builders Association in your city, for licensed contractors. Good luck.

    • PRO
      Creative Tile Eastern CT
      hace 6 años

      https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/homeowners-guide-to-hiring-qualified-tile-installer

    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Great information. Thanks!
    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      My shower is done! I did end up hiring an amazing contractor who literally may have saved a life! The original contractors work was completely removed. We discovered green board unsealed and not glued was screwed in with 12 screws to hold 12x16 tiles. The tiles came down with no effort. I can't thank you all enough for your insight on this project.The Schluter system was amazing. Thank you to Charles at 3R renovations for my beautiful bathroom!
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Congratulations on completing your remodel.

      Although your first (and since he was not a licensed contractor, I will call him a "handyman") was a nightmare, your experience has demonstrated to others, why a homeowner should always hire a licensed professional.

      Yes, the Schluter shower system is one of a few good shower systems that makes a watertight shower; as long as the contractor follows their instructions and not deviate.

    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Ck I hate to tell ya guy number one is and has been licensed for 30 years. It isn’t a guarantee of quality. He has had 0 complaints with the licensing board or the B.B.B.
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      Wow, that is very disappointing. I guess it is more common than I thought. I have run across other homeowners that had hired a licensed contractor with 30+ and 40+ years of experience and have done deficient work for several years, sometimes not finding out until the damage is done.

      Sadly, many have burned out after doing it for many decades and are used to doing it the way they have done it for years; and have never kept up with the newer products and materials. So they just do what they can just to get the work done, not caring about quality or workmanship.

      The thing to know about the BBB, is that companies pay to be on their list. So, if he was not a paying member of BBB, then they may not have any record of complaints. Sadly, the BBB has become more of a advertising/marketing machine for businesses. rather than a watchdog advocate.


    • S K
      hace 6 años
      Hi all, I’m taking solace in reading this so I know I’m not the only one to go through this! My tile setter just walked out as I insisted on waterproofing the backer board. Unfortunately, I’m out of a grand for a demo’ed bath.
      He came with reference and when I checked with the person who referred him, they said they got the whole shower done on backer board without waterproofing and they are fine!! I’m just being too interfering and I should let the tile person do his job, he knows it!
      Well, I did put my foot down. Better to be out of some money than have the whole thing wasted and further damage down the line!!
    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Sk, It sucks! Trust me when I say I debated playing dumb and hoping for the best. Upon tear out of origin shower I was so grateful we stopped him when we did. Hang in there and stay a step ahead with the next guy. Sorry ya gotta do it right.
    • PRO
      CK Independent Living Builders
      hace 6 años

      SK, You can be assured that you made the right decision. Just because a family member, friend etc...refers someone to you, always do your homework on anyone who is going to work on your home and be inside of your home.

      Hopefully, the person who referred the tile setter to you does not regret not waterproofing in a few years.

    • S K
      hace 6 años

      Thanks Tina and CK. I did find a new contractor, hopefully will go better now!!

      thanks for your support!!

    • Tina Colley
      Autor original
      hace 5 años
      S K, That’s great news! It’s going to be so worth it in the end. Keep me posted please?
    • PRO
      Midwest Mosaic, Inc.
      hace 5 años
      Tina. In reference to the article above. Hiring qualified labor. I am the only tile installer in the Toledo OH market with Certified Tile Installer. I am CTI #1442. Please contact me if you would like your job done properly.
    • PRO
      Midwest Mosaic, Inc.
      hace 5 años
      Tina,

      I see you got Charles from 3R. I respect him. We work together on projects some times. congrats on your completed project. You should have no worries.
    • PRO
      Creative Tile Eastern CT
      hace 5 años
      Última modificación: hace 5 años

      @Midwest. Congrats. on passing the CTI test. The hardest 25s/f you will ever install in 9hrs.

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