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Dilemas de diseñoCocina
provincetown2

Small Kitchen Advice

PTown
hace 6 años
última modificación:hace 6 años

Found a drain leak in kitchen, so we are tearing it out and replacing everything. Using opportunity to make some big changes. It is 14'x10'. My design with IKEA planner before scheduling meeting with IKEA designer. Any advice is appreciated.


Current / Original design:


Changes planned:

- remove peninsula, replace with kitchen island, approx. 40"x66"

- 36" farmhouse sink - currently a 30" under mount on a 36" base cabinet

- 36" range with hood - currently 30" with microhood

- pantry 30" instead of 36". Room is 95" H, 80", will put in 90" H pantry with more usable drawers, currently fixed 3 top/3 bottom shelves.

- counter between range and fridge from 18" to 15"

- microwave in island, cabinet nearest range/sink

- built in trash in cabinet at end near dishwasher.

- we currently have a 7" lowered ceiling/covered space above cabinets to make it flush. But since we are changing layout, assuming I can remove and put in 40" H cabinets instead of current 36" H, also IKEA is 15" D instead of current 12" D.


Hoping we aren't too ambitious with sink and range widths.





Thanks in advance

Respuesta destacada
  • PRO
    Ellsworth Design Build
    hace 6 años
    Current layout looks like a vast improvement. It doesn’t look like you’ve allowed for fillers at walls and corners but that could just be the size of the image I’m looking at. I assume you have a dishwasher to the left of the sink and trash on the right? Best is a 18” cabinet for the trash so you can buy the rev a shelf double trash pullout (one for recycling) (I don’t like the ikea trash options...)

    Get the kidney shaped pull out for the inside corner. Pain to assemble but very user friendly, my last kitchen had two and we loved them.

    I would also plan for an end panel at the fridge. The pantry and the cabinet over the fridge can be built out on spacers if you want a standard depth fridge.

    Comentarios (39)

    • PRO
      JudyG Designs
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      My daughter just remodeled her Boston kitchen using IKEA. Came out great. She got rid of the typical dining table and chairs and island, designed a 58” square granite over top of two IKEA upper 30” cabs, back to back…operational….giving her a 30” square base for the granite. She did this counter height and added 8 chairs. Acts both as an island and dining table and left lots of walking around room.

      Do you live in P-town?

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      Thank you.

      Interesting alternative. Our current dining table is 60"x60". if we did one, the room might have too much empty space. Basically you are describing having a kitchen island the size of my dinner table. Something to think about. I'm trying to find the right distance between the islands and the dinner table.

      Right now the peninsula has no lip/overhang, so nobody can sit there and only cabinet depth, so not very functional. With the island, I measured based on the 24" cabinet depth with 16" overhang/counter for depth of some stools, so that they can be tucked underneath.


      I don't live in Provincetown, just a memory from my childhood. :)


    • Janie Gibbs-BRING SOPHIE BACK
      hace 6 años

      Hi Irvine,

      We built a tiny kitchen from Ikea last year and love it.

      Are you absolutely sure you do not want a true exhaust?

      Oh boy, do I regret not putting one in, ugh!

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      Sorry, the picture doesn't show the exhaust. We will be getting a 36" hood, probably 800-900 cfm. I put in the 36" cabinet for spacing purposes above the range. IKEA only has 30" hoods, and I wanted the correct spacing. Although we have cabinets there now, we will probably go with a full wall exhaust if the tubing works, it is more to the left now, so not sure if we can center it properly without a cabinet covering it.

      Great to know that you had a good experience with IKEA. Although this wasn't a planned upgrade, I'm excited about the prospect of a new kitchen.


    • studio10001
      hace 6 años

      The 16" overhang is more about aesthetics than function; if you remove the stool option, it can solve the issue of space between the two seating areas:


    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      @Ellsworth-Hallett Home Professionals - I have added a little filler for end panels, but it may not be perfect. I figured once we get the IKEA consult, they can help with fine tuning and planning out the actual drawers and specifics. The corner cabinet, I have it set with those two turning trays, but I was planning on putting my small appliances in there, like blender, pressure cooker, waffle maker, I'm curious if it can handle that weight when it turns out, or just keep it as shelves and store them. Or I have a find a different space for that. Again, I need to think about the details. Working on just the layout and learning about prices for 36" ranges have been daunting.

      You guess right on the trash, but currently set at 15". Not sure if I should go down to a 30" sink to give me a few more inches. Our fridge is already a cabinet depth, so it should look nice filling in a fitted space unlike the current 39" width.


      @studio10001 - thanks for those photos, definitely something to think about. I like it. We are going with an all white kitchen and have a black table, maybe that contrast would be nice. Really gives me something to think about, thank you.

    • PRO
      Scorziell Development, Inc.
      hace 6 años
      I like the basic layout change. The addition of the island is exactly what I was going to suggest before I saw your new design. One suggestion would be to put either the kitchen sink or a down draft stovetop in the island. That will make a more sociable kitchen atmosphere. There is nothing worse than having company over and spending your time facing a wall cooking or cleaning while everyone else is having fun. You can join the party with this change.
    • smitrovich
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      You currently have ~36" walkways—that is far too tight. You should have a minimum of 48" anywhere there are appliances and a minimum of 42" anywhere else.

    • Janie Gibbs-BRING SOPHIE BACK
      hace 6 años

      Irvine,

      We hacked the lazy susan cabinet to make it a true corner, it's pretty easy and we love it! We actually did it in order to make an Ikea corner kitchen sink.

      I know some people love the lazy susan, but like you, I was concerned about the weight and I couldn't stand that accordion door.

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @Scorziell Development, Inc. - I thought about the sink or range in the island, but it isn't that big. I also like the idea of just a huge island table to do baking projects on with the kids. Or setting out a big buffet spread.

      @smitrovich - thank you for the tips, I will look closely at the distances. Do I calculate the distance from cabinet to cabinet or how far the appliances extend out.

      @Janie Gibbs - Thanks for the tip about the corner. I'm glad to get rid of the peninsula and not have two corners. Hacking it is a great idea, I didn't think of. To the right of the sink is another 15" cabinet, which I haven't finalized, can possibly come up with an option.

      Love all the ideas everyone is suggesting. Since this is a last minute remodel and with the holidays approaching, it is a bit intimidating.




    • Jan
      hace 6 años
      If you're getting a new refrigerator consider counter depth, it makes a big difference. I would replace the dining table to a narrow one, with leaves if you need them.
    • Jan
      hace 6 años
      I can't tell but I hope your island is all one level. A lot more usable that way.
    • Elizabeth B
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      I just put in a Ikea kitchen I have a smaller kitchen then you and have 41" between range and the island I think I should have went to 38"

    • felizlady
      hace 6 años
      With a dining table in the kitchen, I would suggest adding cabinets for storage on both sides of the island and getting rid of the breakfast bar idea. You need more storage than seating! Be sure you allow for plenty of space between the island and any appliance...at least 42" (48" is better) so you can move around comfortably even if the appliance door is open. If the light fixture over the dining table is not centered over the table, you can either have the wiring moved or the chain can be swagged so it is centered over the table. You need two good pendants or recessed lights over the island and additional recessed lights for general lighting.
    • PRO
      Ellsworth Design Build
      hace 6 años
      The corner pull outs are great, we used one for storing all of our pots and the other stored all of our small appliance.

      You do want to allow for about 3” fillers in all corners/ walls. It seems excessive but going too much smaller leads to heartache!
    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @Jan - yes, kitchen island all one level, just doesn't appear in design. And yes, we have an older but cabinet depth fridge already.

      @Elizabeth B - thank you, distance is something I need to think about.

      @felizlady - thanks for pointing out lighting, I didn't even think about that. We do have a bunch of recessed lights already, but should check to see where they are. Good point on the island storage. Need to think about our priorities a bit.

      @Ellsworth-Hallett Home Professionals - thanks for the advice. I know fillers is something I have to learn about and take into consideration.


      I just came back from IKEA and spoke with someone there. He gave some good ideas, even considering not putting in a corner cabinet and instead lose the corner, and put a cabinet with drawers, explaining, I would get better use out of that space.

      He also suggested 30" not the 36" for the sink, and range because our small kitchen and gain counter/cabinet space. I'm debating on this idea, I wanted the 36 for the griddle, but learning that is kind of out of our price range. Don't really see a need for 6 burners, though I could have my cast iron griddle live on the range if I did.

      I feel like I have to go back to the drawing board for now.


    • Janie Gibbs-BRING SOPHIE BACK
      hace 6 años

      Hi Irvine,

      I agree with your Ikea kitchen sales person, in regard to the 30 inch sink. Also, make sure it's an undermount, so you can easily wipe crumbs.

      Also agree with poster who said less seating and more storage.

      Can't wait to see what you decide! Ikea kitchens are so much fun.


    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      Wow, with all the advice here and talking with the IKEA guy really helped. Here is an updated picture I just did with some of the suggestions.

      Changes I made:

      - Reduced sink to 30", will still be an under mount farmhouse sink

      - Give up the space in the corner, put a 18" cabinet next to stove, moves the still 36" stove over, puts a 18" cabinet on other side. This allowed me to keep my big stove, and keep my 30" pantry (ikea guy suggested shrink to 24"). But the cabinets look more balanced.

      - Removed seating in island, made it all storage, 24" plus 15" cabinets. Made island 40"x60". We do have a large table 60"x60", so plenty of seating in area already. The extra storage makes giving up the corner more tolerable. I can see the kids getting taller and just standing around to do things on our big island.

      - By removing island seating, I can create more space and clearance between wall / cabinets and island. Won't compete with space with dining table chairs.

      IKEA guy even had a great suggestion about the trash drawer. I was going to place it to the left of the dishwasher, but he said when I'm prepping/cooking, I wouldn't want to carry trash over dishwasher or have trash next to it (I can see my kids missing). He suggested next to sink, or somewhere, just not near clean dishes. Makes a lot of sense. He said 15" can have one trash bin, but 18" can have 2 bins, which is important for me.


      I really like these changes. Next would be to figure out what cabinets/drawers I want exactly. This is not an easy process. Thank you everyone. I have appreciated what everyone has suggested.




    • studio10001
      hace 6 años

      Hoe you will post your results, and best of luck!

    • Elizabeth B
      hace 6 años

      Excited to see the final product as well. When I did an ikea island too. I used 2"x4"s as a frame and attacked it to the subfloor then attached the cabinets to the frame.

    • acm
      hace 6 años

      I don't know that I'd do a 36" stove in such a small space -- with the current trend toward continuous grille and/or 5 burners, you get a lot of use from a good 30" range, and you could reclaim the corner. Also, a hood like you're talking about is likely to require modifications to your HVAC system (makie-up air) to be sure your house has enough air pressure when you're running it (so you don't, e.g., suck dangerous fumes out of the furnace into the living space), which can run $$$, so be sure you look into that!

    • Janie Gibbs-BRING SOPHIE BACK
      hace 6 años

      Hi Irvine,

      Love your changes!

      We love our horizontal ikea door above our fridge,

      http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S39036748/

      Gives a very updated feel to our kitchen.

      Are you going to have any glass doors in the uppers with in cabinet lighting?

      Are your drawers going to light up?

      Will you be keeping your knives on the counter?

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @Janie Gibbs - Thanks. I am considering the horizontal doors. We have regular doors over our fridge with a 12" D currently, really useless. Thanks for the recommendation on the horizontal, makes sense with it so high up.

      We really only have a few upper cabinets, not sure if we will be putting glass there. I'd imagine it would be mostly dishes and not that impressive looking. But who knows, with more cabinets, I would have to think about where I could store them, perhaps a pull out drawer. This new kitchen feels like a lot more storage room.

      As for cabinet lighting and drawers lights, I think we have to think about that when it comes to budget. It is a very bright room with led lights and lots of windows. What I really want is possibly recessing the outlets under the top cabinets. Then have a cleaner backsplash.

      I will definitely be storing my knives in the drawer, probably next to the stove, like I have now. But in general, I only really use one knife, a big Asian one. I'm trying to plan out my appliances so that I can have as much of an unclutter look as possible. My toaster and rice cooker will live on top, maybe my vitamix too. Of those three the rice cooker is the one we use daily and have on almost all the time. I would consider storing the other two, but they are heavy. Right now I also have my pressure cooker, water boiler, and juicer on the counter. And I want to find them a nice home since I don't use them as often.




    • auntthelma
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      You currently have ~36" walkways—that is far too tight. You should have a minimum of 48" anywhere there are appliances and a minimum of 42" anywhere else..

      No it's not. 36" is more than some doorways. In a small kitchen, you have to weigh your options and go with the better idea, not always the ideal.

      I love the new layout. It is pretty much exactly what I would do with the same situation. (Except we love bar seating and use it often, so that is a priority for me. Of course if your priority is storage, you go with your second idea.)

      Don't forget trash drawers.

    • Elizabeth B
      hace 6 años

      main thing is be able to get the range installed when cabinets/island is installed or else you'll be in trouble lol my 41 inches was plenty room to slide the range in

    • smitrovich
      hace 6 años

      auntthelma - 36" is the absolute minimum. While that might work in a cramped NYC closet-sized kitchen, this space is large enough that it can be designed for better flow and function. The homeowners new plan provides ~42-48 inches which is a vast improvement to the original layout. This adjustment, along with the other changes, translates to a much more functional kitchen.

      PTown Irvine - The new plan is looking great—nice work! If I could offer one more suggestion, consider a round or oval table, instead of the square one currently in the plan. It will help with traffic flow in the space. Looking forward to seeing it come together!

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @smitrovich - thank you. I'm still debating the island with seating. Will definitely consider the table change. We were also considering removing the middle leaf of the table to make it narrower.

    • smitrovich
      hace 6 años
      Última modificación: hace 6 años

      You could easily remove cabinet 12 and 13 if you want to put the island seating back in. If you decide against the island seating (since the dining space is right there) keep in mind that people can still congregate around the island while your cooking. I often end up standing at the island when I'm talking with the host, even if there are stools there.

    • PRO
      Best Online Cabinets
      hace 6 años

      When I see kitchen designs, one of the first things I look at is the corners. Corners can be wasted dead space, super useful, or somewhere in-between.

      In your first design, it looked like you might have had a blind corner. I know a few people suggested the little pull out magic corner devices that tend to make those blind corners so much better. Your new design looks like you might be planning on making it dead space.

      I am always worried about placing pull out trash cabinets and pull out spice racks into the corners of your kitchen. Even if there is enough space to pull them open, it always seems to feel cramped.

      My suggestion would be to sacrifice 3 inches off the cabinet to the right of your range. 12 inches will still be enough counter space to aid in your cooking and a 12-inch cabinet is still useful as storage. MORE importantly, this will give you about 54 inches to the left of your range. You can then put an 18 inch pull out trash cabinet to the left of the range. This will be an easy reach from both your range and you sink and it won’t be crammed into the corner. Best of all, you will have 36 inches left to put in an incredibly useful 36-inch lazy susan corner cabinet that will maximize your kitchen storage. This should also give you about 6 more inches to add to your sink base cabinet so you can get a really big sink if that’s what you desired.

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @Best Online Cabinets - Thank you for your advice. That corner is a bit tight and was concerned about pulling out a trash can while one was either cooking or washing dishes. I was considering putting the pull out trash in the island. Would that be too far away? I normally have a small bucket on the counter where I prep for food scraps that I empty often. Our large trash is mainly for dry items and recyclables, emptied out weekly.

      Was even wondering if my dead area could have a food waste slot.

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @Best Online Cabinets - I tried out what you said, but it doesn't seem to fit. If I have a corner 36", then 18" trash, then 36" stove, then 12" cabinet, then 36" fridge, and then 30" pantry, it comes out to 168" or 14' exactly. The wall is 14', this gives no room for the 3" you are talking about, or any possible filler or spacing. Or, unless you were assuming a 30" stove?

    • sheloveslayouts
      hace 6 años

      I only skimmed this thread, but I'll add some thoughts in case they're helpful to you. I tried to draw it up in the Ikea planner, but it froze (of course) so I roughly sketched in the rest.

      You don't have to center your sink on your window. If it's a slider with two panels, you can center the sink on the left panel. An undermount sink is not super noticeable, it's the faucet location that looks best centered on a panel or a mullion. I tried drawing a 36" sink centered on the left panel (assuming you have a basic sliding window.)

      I think the single upper cabinet to the left of the window looks a bit goofy. What about an open shelf or two in that location for your most frequently used glassware and dishes?

      If an all-drawer base cabinet is placed in the island that opens toward the dishwasher, it makes unloading the dw a breeze.


      If your island is all storage (IMO you don't need counter seating at your island), do you need a full 30 inch pantry? Why not an 18" with adjustable pullouts so your 36" range/hood don't feel so cramped?

      It's nice to have an Ikea 18" trash pullout on the non-dw, range side of the sink.

      My aisle is about 38". It was a mistake because my draftsperson drew up the kitchen dimension from cabinet to cabinet, not counter edge to counter edge. I strongly recommend at least a 42" aisle. Especially across from a refrigerator. I have a counter depth french door fridge and the narrow aisle is most noticeable there.

      Anyway. Just some food for thought. Here's my attempt at redeeming my frozen ikea drawing...

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @benjesbride - wow, thank you for the ideas. And even taking the time to draw it out. The planner app can definitely be painful at times.

      The window is a huge bay window. So I kind of wanted to center to it. I can fit an 18" bin to the right, but in that corner. And by going down to a 30" sink, it should give me some fill space to the right of the bin, from the corner. But also, as I mentioned in a different post, I don't put food / wet waste in the trash. I keep a small bucket with a plastic bag for all that and toss it every other day. As a result, our large trash only gets emptied weekly because it doesn't smell. So I'm considering putting the trash in the island.

      You gave me some great ideas. Right now we store all our dishes in the upper cabinet in the corner. I have never put dishes in a drawer. I can see putting the dishes in the island, close to dishwasher and then to dinner table. With utensils above it. Then kids don't have to enter the kitchen area to set the table.

      Also a smaller pantry is something to consider. I was holding on to it because I have a 36" pantry now. But I do store my waffle maker and food processor there. And with more storage in the island, I can see myself moving all that out and only use the pantry for food.

      I think the main layout is starting to take shape. I now need to refine how I plan to store all my stuff.

      Sincerely appreciate your post.

    • sheloveslayouts
      hace 6 años

      I recommend a 5-10-15" drawer stack. Our flatware, glasses, bowls and plates are in a 24" base, but I'm kind of a minimalist and it's a tight fit.

    • PTown
      Autor original
      hace 6 años

      @benjesbride - How do you layout a pullout pantry on the ikea planner app


    • sheloveslayouts
      hace 6 años

      In the left-side menu:

      Kitchen & Appliances --> High cabinets

      In your kitchen I clicked on High cabinets 90H, 24D--> With wire baskets --> 18"

    • PRO
      Celery. Visualization, Rendering images
      hace 6 años

      Here is one more option of interior designer Emily Henderson kitchen

    • PRO
      Best Online Cabinets
      hace 6 años

      @PTown Irvine, There are a lot of ways to get those inches that you need. Some are better than others. It really just depends on what your priorities are.

      First of all, Yes you can certainly put a pull-out trash cabinet on your island. I do not think it will feel like it is “too far away.” Personally, I wouldn’t go with this plan because it involves you having to turn around every time you use it whether you are facing the range or the sink. Also, If you have the cabinet face the sink and pull out towards the sink it will really complicate your island design. While if you have it face the range then you might occasionally get annoyed by the pull-out trash and oven door taking up the walkway. Many people are not really bothered by these ^ issues, but I feel like there are better options.

      When our installers are putting in cabinets they say that the minimum filler that they use is 1 inch. There are a number of factors that will determine how much filler you need. (knobs, handles, door and hinge design, etc.) The last thing I want is to complicate this further, but you will probably need an extra inch next to the fridge for a refrigerator panel. To be safe, let us assume that you need 3 more inches to make this work. If it were my kitchen, my priority would be to have a 36-inch range, 36-inch fridge, the 30-inch pantry, and the 18-inch double trash cabinet. (I fill up those little 15 inch ones way too fast.) So I would just take 3 more inches from the cabinet between the range and the fridge.

      I have lived in a house with a terrible kitchen where the fridge and range were literally touching, side by side. I hated it. But as long as you have a little bit of counter space to work with, it makes all the difference in the world. One of the most popular options that people ask us for when designing a new kitchen is the pull-out spice racks right next to your range. A 9-inch spice rack base cabinet would fit there with 9 inches of countertop to use for spoons or what have you. And if you don’t like the pull-out spice rack you can always use a narrow 9-inch cabinet. I see a lot of people using these types of cabinets next to their range to store cooking sheets and cutting boards. (excellent for organizing flat stuff)

      Going with this plan will only sacrifice 3 to 6 inches of storage space from one wall cabinet and one base cabinet and you will gain a great corner cabinet. It looks like your design is going to have a lot of great storage already with your 30-inch pantry and island cabinets; so I doubt you will miss the sacrificed storage space.

      If you are not too keen on that plan, there are other ways to get the necessary 3 inches.

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