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sue_kinney

Need help with layout - starting from the ground up (sort of)

Sue Kinney
hace 7 años

Remodeling an old house and we just don't know what to do with the
kitchen! So far, we're thinking of putting a wide counter with seating
on both sides where the "window" opening is into the living room, and a
wet bar where the refrigerator is. We're open to moving doors and
windows. The door to the outside opens to a carport/patio with no view
of the yard. It's in a good location for traffic. Help!

Comentarios (17)

  • Sue Kinney
    Autor original
    hace 7 años





  • herbflavor
    hace 7 años

    what sort of light/view would be gained by making more windows on current sink wall...perhaps close up window on carport wall? I see light streaming in above sink window. What is on the other side of the fridge wall? I see no light coming into living room...do you think looking at the "whole house" in context with regards to current positives/negatives and potential gains from various projects would be good before you just look at kitchen in isolation?? Where is laundry...how many baths...For example: wet bar near back door is okay but that's a "drop zone"... don't see a closet...other things that benefit from being placed in that kind of a spot: half bath/laundry/storage closet or cubbies...You should bring into discussion your eating area needs.....what's current format for taking meals. Lots to ponder...Happy Holiday, if a "dull moment " arises you can certainly think and/or sketch and provide a lot more details which always helps.

  • Buehl
    hace 7 años
    Última modificación: hace 7 años

    Do you have a full-floor layout? It helps us see how the Kitchen relates to the rest of the house and how traffic flows in, through, and around it.

    It looks like the window looking out onto the carport just looks at the house next door - how important is it to you? Does it let in much light at other times of the day?

    Would you consider removing all or part of the wall to the Living Room to (1) open the entire space and (2) get more light into the Living Room? The "radiator" would have to be moved or converted to in-floor heating - but you wouldn't want anything hot where someone could be walking in bare feet. Hmmm....maybe take down walls around it and leave the part with the radiator as a "pony" wall? I'll think some more about it - and anyone else who reads this, think about it as well!

    Where is your Dining Room? Or, does this have to be an eat-in Kitchen (hence your desire to put seating b/w the Kitchen & Living Room)?

    What is that item in the wall below the carport window? An air conditioner? Does it have to stay? If so, it limits what can be done on that wall.

    Edited to add: What's a "Sweep Cooler"? That's what that item is labeled as on the layout. At least I think that's what it says...it's difficult to read b/c the writing is so thick.

    Is the radiator below the "sweep cooler" functional?

    Note: It would be helpful if we had the exact location of the radiators and cooler - I'd measure from the walls and from the floor (for height off the floor for the cooler).

    This might help:

    How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

    .

  • Buehl
    hace 7 años
    Última modificación: hace 7 años

    Could you please check these dimensions? They're not working out. Some were difficult to read b/c of the thick #s, but even if I'm off by a number here and there, they still do not add up. This is what I'm reading:

    .

    If they're correct, then I'm guessing the walls are not square.

  • Sue Kinney
    Autor original
    hace 7 años
    Última modificación: hace 7 años

    herbflavor - The window over the sink is providing the most light, and the view is not bad. There are two large windows in the living room which are covered right now, but provide good light to the LR, but not so much to the kitchen. The window to the carport is terrible - it's a view of the inside of the carport which is covered and has a wall blocking the view to the yard. That wall has to stay for now - the winds here are strong and we're using the carport as a patio (grill, smoker, etc). I'm not opposed to covering up that window, but then there is even less light. We were thinking of doing a skylight?

    There is a bathroom on the other side of the fridge wall, with the plumbing on that wall.

    We're redoing the entire house. The main entrance for us will probably be through the garage. There is a front entrance into the LR. We have a big laundry room and two full baths. The main bath is on the other side of the wall where the fridge is now.

    We've been living in a 5th wheel for 3 years, so we're used to eating on the couch. Even when we had a house before, we rarely sat at the dining room table. Only when we had guests. I'd thought about putting a table and chairs where the fridge is, but I fear it would totally be turned into a messy drop zone. Plus, the door is in the way.


    buehli -

    I remeasured - writing over the dimensions with a sharpie wasn't a good idea, since I couldn't read my originals! So, the top dimensions are 121 + 39.5 + 19.5 + 32 + 32 = 244. Bottom 36 + 84.5 + 41.5 + 48 + 33.5 (not 28) = 243.5. Left 51 + 39.5 + 51 = 141.5. Right 96.5 + 5.25 + 40 = 141.75.

    We definitely want to open up that pass-through to the living room. We can't take down the entire wall because it's load-bearing (don't want to get into that cost/trouble) and there are baseboard heaters on both sides of it. That's why we thought opening up the pass-through up to the ceiling and down ??" (it's now 43.5" from the floor) and putting a slab of something on it to make an eating area. (No dining room) We would widen the doorway from the LR to the kitchen and have a support at each end of the pass-through. (Hope that makes sense.)

    The baseboard heater on the living room wall runs the length of that wall and goes from the floor up 8.5". The one on the carport side is the same length as, and directly under, the window. The swamp cooler is centered between the heater and the window. It's possible to move the swamp cooler to the roof and I would prefer to do that since it's ugly. (In the desert we use swamp coolers instead of AC. A swamp cooler blows humidified air through the house. )

    I could do a rough drawing of the entire house - would that help? It's basically a ranch split down the middle, with a garage at one end. Back side of the house from the garage is office/bathroom/kitchen and front side is bedroom/living room/master bedroom.

    Thank you for all your help!


  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    hace 7 años

    I used buehl's graph. If you would consider putting the range on the left wall and the sink/DW on the peninsula, you could have seating on two sides. Since you are open to moving windows, you could have a window on each side of the range, with no uppers on that wall. If you put the bar on a counter over the swamp and the heater, you could have a glass shelf (or shelves) across the window. The MW could be on the counter beside the fridge, or on a shelf to the left. I drew a 36" hood over the 30" range, to help capture steam and grease, since there are no adjacent cabinets to help contain the plume.



  • Sue Kinney
    Autor original
    hace 7 años

    I like the range with the two windows! The peninsula won't be an actual peninsula - there will be a support at the end. I'd rather have that entire area be suitable for seating on both sides. Something to think about, tho. The bar isn't really necessary, it was just a thought for that big empty space - bar with lots of cabinets for pantry items. Thank you!


  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    hace 7 años
    Última modificación: hace 7 años

    If you can move the swamp cooler and radiator to the short wall, you
    could put the fridge on the range wall, with or without windows on each
    side of the hood. The longer rad under the pass-through could be
    re-used.

    The counter could be open below, with cabinets above. I
    don't know if it's possible, but maybe you could have the cooler and
    radiator custom built into base cabinets, with the radiator just under
    the toekick, and the swamp flush with the cabinet face (second pic). ETA, when we lived in western Colorado we had swamp coolers on the roof, which makes more sense, as cold air sinks. Did you plan to leave the long heater under the seating on the kitchen side of the non-peninsula?

    The
    DW should remain to the left of the sink, but with it open you wouldn't
    be able to access the uppers to the left--dishes would need to go in
    the uppers to the right. The cabinet under the seating, on the kitchen
    side could be reserved for items not often used--turkey roaster or
    canner, and the one on the LR side could be turned 90 degrees to open
    toward the LR, so that space is not lost.

  • laughablemoments
    hace 7 años

    The peninsula looks like a great place to prep meals, but that would be difficult if folks are sitting on the stool side of the peninsula. Something to think about if people will be sitting there often.

  • Sue Kinney
    Autor original
    hace 7 años

    We've decided not to make a peninsula but just lower the pass-through. A friend was out today looking at it and that load-bearing wall requires more than "just" a beam. Seems the original roof was flat and when they raised it they did some funky stuff up in the rafters that won't hold if we start messing with the wall. We're going to have to put up a short beam in the doorway as it is.

    I'm still thinking just seating (no prep area) on both sides of the pass-through and looking at getting rid of the window, swamp cooler and baseboard heater underneath. We could maybe build cabinets around the swamp cooler where it is, but it can't be moved to the short wall - there is a HUGE unit outside the wall and the swamp cooler is kind of like a window air-conditioner. It needs direct airflow - air is pulled through the house by opening a window or door on the opposite end of the swamp cooler. It's an ugly unit, that's for sure.

  • mama goose_gw zn6OH
    hace 7 años

    So, if you keep the swamp cooler, but move it to the other side of the door, and keep the area under the counter open, would that work? (Blue rectangle in the drawing.) That is, if you'd like to keep the cooler--if you're happy to get rid of it, you could have the reach-in pantry there.

    What about a short peninsula/table beside the pass-through? That would eliminate a corner, and give you space to stand beside the DW to use the upper cabinets to the left of the sink. Everyone sitting at the table would seem more connected.

  • practigal
    hace 7 años

    I would double check that table. It looks to me like there will be nothing but knees banging underneath.

    Personally, I would go with mama goose's first drawing and accept the fact that there would be some vertical supports running through the peninsula. (Meaning I would move the sink to look through the pass through and put the stove between the two windows)

  • PRO
    House Of Cabinetry
    hace 7 años

    Take it to a actual kitchen designer that knows what they are doing to begin with. That would probably make your life much easier.


  • practigal
    hace 7 años

    Sorry, I disagree house of cabinetry. Your comment is kind of off-the-wall for this forum. I observed that the worst design that I received was from a kitchen designer desperate to create a $30K cabinet canyon. The OP is better armed with ideas and thoughts on what s/he does and doesn't like and a firm understanding of what can and cannot happen at that load bearing wall/pass-through.

  • Sue Kinney
    Autor original
    hace 7 años

    Thank you, practigal! I was feeling kind of bad after reading that!

  • Buehl
    hace 7 años
    Última modificación: hace 7 años

    Unfortunately, some of the worst designs we see here are from Kitchen Designers - so don't feel bad Sue! None of us here on the Forum get paid and we have no "skin in the game", so we design based on what's the most functional and best design. No commission on sales of cabinets, etc.

    We also aren't worried about "losing a customer", so we can be honest and upfront about issues - which, while people may not want to hear it, can be eye-opening to those who are willing to listen (prime example - cramming an island into a space that cannot support it and telling customers that those narrow aisles and/or shallow overhangs will be OK. *sigh* Those KDs don't have to live with the results later - you do!)

    In addition, from what I have seen (both personal experience when I was redoing my Kitchen & from others here), most KDs at cabinet & Kitchen places are really cabinet salespeople - they've usually had little or no training and are not certified KDs.

    Yes, there are some good KDs out there, but you have to search for them.

  • Sue Kinney
    Autor original
    hace 7 años

    Found out we can't move the swamp cooler because the other side of the door has the in-ground entrance to under the house. So, I can't put the refrigerator there. I could do a counter under the window (and over the swamp cooler). I like the idea of the peninsula table into the room but wonder about room to get through the doorway (from the LR) if people are seated at that side of the table.

    I'm SO thankful for all the advice - we'll get this done, yet!

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