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Building a Home
arialvetica

Talk to me about WINDOW RETURNS; drywall, sills only...

arialvetica
hace 8 años

We're building a modern home, designed by an architect specifically for us (yay!)

They're encouraging us to do drywall returns in the windows, instead of trim. After looking at thousands of Houzz pictures, I'm inclined to agree that fully trimmed windows don't fit the style of the home.

The windows themselves are black fiberglass (both inside and out).

Chelsea Apt. · Más información

^ Drywall returns all around. My experience with horizontal drywall surfaces is that they get dusty and are impossible to clean. Is there a way to avoid that?


photoshopped w/ black...

^ Drywall returns + black metal sill on the bottom edge. Any material other than drywall would be easier to clean, and our builder advises against wood sills for our region (a lot of rapid temperature and humidity fluctuations). The builder has done granite before (including the main living areas of his own home) but granite is too expensive for us to use throughout an entire home (and I'm not 100% sure I love the look anyway). I proposed black metal sills (builder can fabricate these in-house).

Respuesta destacada
  • LE
    hace 8 años

    Our house is also modern. We did do wood for the sills, just to warm things up visually, but the rest of the windows are "lined" with wood painted to match the wall. There's no more dust than anywhere else, and they are painted with millwork paint, so very cleanable. Our windows are also black fiberglass, so maybe this will give you some ideas. You could just have the cavity lined all the way around without the fir sill. It makes for a nice clean 90 degree edge. These were during construction, obviously, and I don't think the finish was even on them yet, plus they've darkened a little.

    Comentarios (36)

    • omelet
      hace 8 años

      If anyone knows how to prevent dust in a home I want to know about it! In our home, the dust is white - it would be so much more noticeable instantly on a black sill than on a white sill. Your situation may be different.

    • User
      hace 8 años

      Metal has to be painted and painting metal is problematic. Building the sills and having them powder coated is better, long term, than painting.

    • User
      hace 8 años
      Última modificación: hace 8 años

      I built a contemporary home last year. Our architect also specified drywall returns. In general I am not noticing the dust any more than usual. I just swiffer it once in a while.

      I have a couple of claw marks on one where the cat jumps up. I don't know if that is a concern.

      In the kitchen the countertop provides the "sill."

      Your photoshop images in my mind are counterproductive to the modern aesthetic your architect is trying to achieve. Those examples call to mind "Florida houses" where the drywall return is chosen to save money as opposed to being an expression on its own.

      I have thought about doing a sill, for the cat and to wipe down but so far the paint is holding up fine except where the cat jumps.

      I will try to search for an example of a modern trim that was suggested to me as an alternative. I'm on my phone so it might be a while.

      Good luck!

    • geoffrey_b
      hace 8 años

      We have marble tile on some of ours - about $20 sq/ft - cut it to width - polish the edge or use Schluter profile.

    • cpartist
      hace 8 años

      We have drywall returns in our apartment in NY. I hate them because as you mention they are always dusty and they get scratched up. Does your architect have any ideas of what could be used for the bottom of the wall? I have no idea other than granite, marble or quartz.

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      Perhaps the answer is to do "hard drywall corners" (instead of bullnose corners). Then I can paint the inside of the drywall return with a super washable paint.

      I probably won't use super-washable paint throughout the entire house because my experience is it's impossible to paint a touch-up without repainting the whole room...but just within the drywall returns makes sense. Then it would wipe clean!

      I don't mind dusting/wiping...but in my previous house it was literally impossible to scrub up the dirt/dust off horizontal drywall surfaces. I ended up re-painting them, and having glass cut to fit each spot so it was easier to wipe clean.

    • cpartist
      hace 8 años

      I'm wondering if you could paint the insides in a semi gloss of the same color vs whatever you'll paint the rest of the walls. I'd think a semi gloss would be easier to clean?

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      cpartist -- great minds! I was thinking the same thing. I'm thinking about doing a really muted blue/teal wall color in the main living area... would you suggest painting the drywall returns a semi-gloss of the same color, or white?

    • User
      hace 8 años

      This is similar to what was suggested, as a "modern" treatment in place of the simple drywall return, which, on doorframes, is somewhat difficult to pull off properly.

      Lopez Island Residence · Más información

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      Ha! That was my original inspiration picture that I showed the builder months ago!!!!!!

      He seemed to think it just wouldn't work with the fiberglass windows we've chosen. (I still don't 100% understand WHY, but I got tired of spending all of our builder meetings beating the same dead horse.)

    • just_janni
      hace 8 años

      We are setting our windows into 10" thick concrete sandwich panels and attaching them to the concrete. We will then "cover" the concrete portion that shows with plain wood framing all the way around - no "sills and molding" look, but one that will be linear and clean looking. Of course the interior finish of our windows is wood, so it works.

      I wouldn't so the drywall returns. Here's my issue - drywall is a verticle WALL surface - it's not mean to be a ledge / shelf, have the cat sit on, etc. I would also think it would be prone to damage around a window too.

      Admittedly - I am not a fan of drywall - but I think it's a substandard material for window returns - even though it can be made to have a nice clean aesthetic. I think that windows deserve a little more than drywall.

      Alternatively - I agree with making the painted surface as durable as possible - even darkening it up to highlight the recess of the window?

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      If any cats worm their way into our house, we'll be dealing with much bigger problems than dirty drywall, LOL!

      How would you feel about a glossy black paint on the window return? Or would that absorb precious light?

    • just_janni
      hace 8 años

      I like the black gloss paint idea - it will deepen the window look - are the windows themselves dark framed? If so - you can pretty much make the window itself disappear and focus on the views if you darken them up.

      And cats - I hear ya... maybe I should have said "decorative plants / flowers / things with water"?

    • cpartist
      hace 8 años

      What about framing them out with a simple flat wood look and then staining the wood black. I'd use a wood that has a fine grain. I think that would look awesome with the teal walls and it would really highlight the windows will still creating the look you like.

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      The actual windows themselves are solid black (both inside and outside). No mullions, just big rectangles. And our views are sweeping/private, so we won't do window treatments, except in the bedrooms.

      Most of the living area is north-facing (that's where the best views are)...does that change the black/white window returns recommendation? :)

    • just_janni
      hace 8 años

      Yeah- I'd still protect the corners with wood and not rely on the drywall to do that protective function (oh and what about if you have a window open and you get a little water inside? sills protect against that, and the occasional bump).

      We are going to have a small reveal so it's not just flush - but I think with the minimalist approach - you'd definitely want something dark and have the whole thing just disappear.

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      How would you "protect the corners with wood" and still have a "drywall return?" Not sure I follow.

    • just_janni
      hace 8 años

      I wouldn't. I'd frame them with wood - even it is was "thin", paint it black and keep it simple. I think doing those corners with a drywall return are going to be really tricky and hard to get a nice clean 90 degree corner. (or maybe that's just my experience with drywall folks...)

    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      This Houzz article is helpful: https://www.houzz.com/magazine/design-workshop-10-surprising-twists-on-window-trim-stsetivw-vs~23508691

      This is what I love (see pic below) -- except in a different stain color to match the rest of the house. I think I could settle for drywall returns and be very happy with them, but I think I need to talk to the builder AGAIN about why I can't have this style. He keeps telling me that if I do this style, I also need to have all-wood windows which is a $20k upgrade over the fiberglass we've chosen. Is there any truth to that? (If not, I'm guessing that the builder and I are just having a communication problem.)

      Boerum Hill House, Brooklyn · Más información

    • just_janni
      hace 8 años

      Maybe show him this set of window trims and see how you can replicate what you like? Perhaps he's just not visualizing it. I see that with builders - they don't have the vision to execute something that is 'different'.... and them perhaps have a chat with his trim guy?

      arialvetica agradeció a just_janni
    • C Marlin
      hace 8 años

      I'd just leave the drywall as it is built and paint it the same as your walls. Just keep a can of paint to touch up in a few years, I think it will be a non issue for you. Getting fancy with wood trim will change the look you are trying to achieve. Don't over think it.

      arialvetica agradeció a C Marlin
    • cpartist
      hace 8 años

      I like the wood trim which is what I was trying to explain. Paint or stain it the same color as the window trim.

      arialvetica agradeció a cpartist
    • arialvetica
      Autor original
      hace 8 años

      LE -- I would LOVE to see detail pics of the finished windows!

    • LE
      hace 8 años

      Ariel, they haven't changed a lot! Here's another example.

      I guess the only downside is that we can't casually repaint a room to change a color. (Not that we tend to do that any more.) But these liners were sprayed by a pro at an early stage, and later we painted the walls the same color, but with a different formulation. We considered literally doing a drywall wrap, but you just don't get corners like that due to the bead and mud buildup. Most people probably think these are drywall and that we were being cheap by not having trim! Ironically, these take a lot of time and are quite precise, so I'm glad I don't know how much they cost per window.

      The only thing that has changed since I took these is that we added some woven wood type shades for some warmth and texture and to get rid of that nighttime feeling of living inside a black mirror (the only downside of lots of large windows that I've noticed.) We made sure to have the shades set as far back as possible to preserve that sharp corner we paid for! I was apprehensive, but it still looks good.

    • kudzu9
      hace 8 años

      I did a modern remodel a number of years ago and the architect suggested windows that were wrapped all around with 1/2" thick clear, vertical grain fir that had a thin slot in the front edge to receive the edge of the metal drywall corner. It worked out really well: it was clean looking and easy to keep clean as well. Obviously, if you didn't want a natural wood finish, you could do a semi-gloss spray paint finish in white or another color, and use something besides fir, like MDF. I no longer live in that house, but I did dig up a photo of a window in one of the bathrooms with this treatment:


      Now I live in a different, modern house and the windows have a simple, more conventional fir sill, but the sides and top are wrapped in MDF which is spray painted white to match the baseboard trim. It looks like this:

      If you have black window frames, either white or black would look good, depending on the look you wanted.

    • mushcreek
      hace 8 años

      I can't tell if your house is actually built yet, so my post may not do you any good. Because of our thick walls, I flared the window openings. It gives the illusion of a much larger window. The sides are drywall, the bottom is painted wood. I can't imagine having drywall for a windowsill- you need something- wood, marble, metal; but it should be durable and washable.


    • ryan s
      hace 7 años
      Última modificación: hace 7 años

      LE - love what you did. Just so I'm clear - you had a cabinet finish cover wood to make your window "return" from window to wall. And then that cabinet finished wood return tied into drywall to make the clean 90 degree corner? Am I to assume that the wood "the return" that was finished by cabinet painter had and eggshell or semi gloss finish and the wall (that is drywall) had a flat finish - but all the same color? Do I have that right or am I missing something?

    • doc5md
      hace 7 años

      I like the idea of a glass panel over the drywall to keep the clean look and make cleaning easier. Perhaps blackened on the back of the glass panel...that might give it a little depth from the top which could be interesting. Nice finished edge on the front.

      Disclaimer: DW usually makes all these types of decisions, she is much better than I am!! :) :)

    • LE
      hace 7 años

      Hi, Ryan-- sorry, we are moving right now, so I am just now seeing this. We were not there at this stage of construction, so my only photos are "afters," but I think you are visualizing it. I'm not sure exactly how the transition from drywall to window liner was accomplished, but it is totally seamless now. You are correct that the window liner paint is semigloss and walls are eggshell, but the same color. The liners were made of either MDF or MDO, there is no visible grain or other texture. Hope that helps!

    • Mitch Howes
      hace 6 años

      LE I am trying to figure out a way to incorporate the drywall return look using the window liner that you have done. I am not sure how the drywall edge blends into the wood edge at the corners however? what did your builder do to manage this? Corner bead and mud around corners to the inside of the wood? or a j trim that butts up to the liner ? these 7 windows are the ones I would like to do with clean returns. Thanks

    • ledmond10
      hace 6 años
      Hi, Mitch

      (Somehow, I have a new username now)

      There was no corner bead. Somehow the drywall and wood liner meet perfectly at the corner to form a perfect 90 degrees. I wish we had been there to get pix before painting, so I would understand it better. Our contractor was formerly a finish carpenter and us very meticulous about details and transitions. I wish I understood this well enough to explain it!
    • ledmond10
      hace 6 años
      See Arielvetica 2/15 post with the Houzz photos? I think it was installed like that, then the liners trimmed back to be flush with the drywall.
    • PRO
      Virgil Carter Fine Art
      hace 6 años

      Well...in my own house I detailed all of the interior window openings with drywall heads and sides, with a wood bullnose painted sill piece which projected beyond the drywall an inch. As long as it was dusted on a reasonable basis the approach was fine, and in terms of durability it held up fine for an empty-nester couple.

    • earthlyepicure
      el último año

      @ledmond10 did you not have the drywall return wrap around to the window? We are planning on doing drywall returns (modern farmhouse) with a wood sill. I've been reading this post to see how others have done it (and pros/cons). I like the look - and I think when the room gets painted, it gets painted around to the window. Then, we'll either do a white or stained wood stool/sill. The windows are painted black.


      Does anyone have some recent experience/photos for drywall returns, with or without stools/sills?

    • PRO
      Gg
      hace 8 meses
      Última modificación: hace 8 meses

      No-casings and painted sheetrock returns are the right look for a modern house, and the major brands of windows have all gotten on board with all-fiberglass or for Andersen, all fibrex, windows, this class of windows having relatively shallow frame depth, and all offer dark colors same outside as in, to achieve this popular new look in "modern." The #1 favorite color is black, followed by dark bronze.

      To do it right, the carpenter needs to properly shim the opening before the rockers get there, so reveals are consistent all around. Insider Carpentry channel on YouTube has a great vid on how to do this right. The rockers need to mask well, then use a tearaway bead at the window side, and a good corner bead at the outboard sides.

      The best look, IMHO, is to have a 3/4" thick sill at bottom with the same window reveal as the sides, so the bottom of the opening is not shimmed in as much as the sides. To get this right, the window sits up on shims at installation time and the bottom of the opening is only shimmed to get it dead level and flat for the drywall corner bead. That sill gets no apron under and has to have a good plate-like bed.

      Anything more than 3/4" looks to beefy. Sills should have tiny returns.

      Here is a 3D render done in Chief Architect of a window with sill and another without. The windows are modeled at the same dimesions as the all-fibrex Andersen Series 100, the wall is 2x6 framing, and the depth of the returns to the drywall face is 4-9/16". Note the very shallow bullnose on the sill edge, and the small return.



      A painted wood or stone, metal, or composite sill is going to be more durable and easier to wipe clean than painted drywall, no matter the paint. And as for the dust on those vertical returns at jambs, or horizontal across the head, and durability, you have all kinds of drywall corners eleswhere in the house. Why are corners at windows going to behave differently.

      If your builder has not done these no-casings openings before, think twice before asking him to do it. If he has, insist on seeing examples of work. You don't need to be a first time event for the builder, his carpenter, or his sheetrocker.

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