Landscaping Cost, is $50,000 for this reasonable?
Please help with any feedback or suggestions. This is the landscaping bid we just received for a design we like that while it is substantial (brickwork to the front, new steps, a patio in the back with a fire-pit), well it's $50,000 which is 1/3 of the cost of our house!
We have no experience to know if we are being completely over charged or if this is reasonable and we just shouldn't get a patio or what to do! This is my inheritance money and I don't want my mother to roll over in her grave especially in financial times like these. We'd like this done, but want to be smart about it.
REAR STONE RETAINING WALL (no tax)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Remove Existing Wall
Excavation For Wall
Debris Charge
Baraboo Boulder Wall Installed 86 SFF
Rough Black Topsoil
TOTAL PRICE: $ 1,686.28
REAR UNILOCK BRUSSELS DIMENSIONAL STONE SEAT WALL AND FIRE PIT (no
tax)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Excavation For Wall
Debris Charge
Unilock Brussels Block Dimensional Wall Installed (Random Pattern) 160 SFF
Unilock Brussels Block Wall Cap Installed 72 LF
3/4" Gravel
3/4" Washed Gravel
Torpedo Sand
Unilock SRW Adhesive
TOTAL PRICE: $ 6,680.45
REAR PAVER PATIO (fire pit patio raised 2 steps)(no tax)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Debris Charge
Excavation
Install & Compact Gravel Base
Level & Screed Base
Unilock Brussels Block Inlay Installed 262 SF
Unilock Brussels Block Paver Installed 124 SF
3/4" Gravel
Torpedo Sand
Polymeric Sand
Unilock Snap Edging
TOTAL PRICE: $ 9,255.21
Option 1: Unilock Yorkstone Pavers Inlay Installed add: $ 1,117.90
Option 2: Seal pavers with sand & joint stabilizer add: $ 744.80
FRONT UNILOCK BRUSSELS DIMENSIONAL STONE RETAINING WALL (no tax)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Excavation For Wall
Unilock Brussels Block Dimensional Wall Installed 62 SFF
Unilock Brussels Block Wall Cap Installed 37 LF
1" Clear Limestone
3/4" Gravel
1/4" Gravel
Filter Fabric
Unilock SB10 Adhesive
TOTAL PRICE: $ 2,546.15
FRONT PAVER WALK/ STEPS (no tax)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Remove Existing Walk/ Steps
Debris Charge
Excavation
Install & Compact Gravel Base
Level & Screed Base
Unilock Brussels Block Paver Installed 80 SF
Unilock Brussels Dimensional Step/Wall Installed 141 LF
Unilock Brussells Block Tread/Wall Cap Installed 88 LF
3/4" Gravel
1" Clear Stone Fill
Excavate and Form for Concrete Pad and Pier Footings
Pour Concrete Pad & Footings
Torpedo Sand
Polymeric Sand
Rubber Membrane
Weed Barrier
Unilock Snap Edging
TOTAL PRICE: $ 10,726.12
Option: Seal pavers with sand & joint stabilizer add: $ 203.65
RAILING (allowance, adjust to make wood railing)(no tax)
DESCRIPTION
39" 4 x 4 Post Sleeve Artisan
Artisan Post Cap
Artisan Post Skirts
Horizontal Rail Kit
Stair Rail Kit
Cut Kit
4 x 4 8' #1 SYP Treated .40 Post
Post Brackets
12" Titan Anchors
Miscellaneous Hardware
Labor
TOTAL PRICE: $ 4,101.30
LOW VOLTAGE LIGHTING (no tax)
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Step Lights 7 Each
Transformer: Kischler 600 watt K15PR600SS 1 Each
Wire 10-2
Miscellaneous Parts
TOTAL PRICE: $ 2,281.98
Option: 900 watt transformer K15PR900SS add: $ 237.16
FRONT PLANT BEDS
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Sod & Other Plant Removal
Debris Charge
Garden Mix
Rototill Soil
Shredded Hardwood Bark
Ace of Diamond Black Edging
Flagstone Steppers 5 Each
Preemergent Herbicide
TOTAL PRICE: $ 1,426.60
REAR PLANT BEDS
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY UNIT
Sod & Other Plant Removal
Debris Charge
Ace of Diamond Black Edging
Garden Mix
Rototill Soil
Shredded Hardwood Bark
Mississippi Stone #2
Boulders 7 Each
Weed Barrier
Preemergent Herbicide
TOTAL PRICE: $ 2,295.52
REAR STEPPER PATH (no tax)
DESCRIPTION
Flagstone Steppers As Shown On Plan
TOTAL PRICE: $ 1,365.75
FRONT PLANTS INSTALLED & GUARANTEED
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY SIZE
Transplant: Hosta 4
Miss Kim Lilac 3 2-3'
Endless Summer 3 #1Grade
Feather Reed Grass 2 4.5"
Sweet Joe-Pye-Weed 3 4" pot
Winterglut Bergenia 1 4.5" Pot
Red Jade Crab 1 6-7'
Caragana Siberian Pea Shrub 1 #3
Golden Chamaecyparis 3 #3
Pink Poppet Weigela 3 12"
Diablo Ninebark 1 3'
Goldmound Spirea 3 12-15"
Koreanspice Viburnum 3 #3
Variegated Euonymus 18 2.5"
Mixed Perennials 36 4.5"
TOTAL PRICE: $ 2,528.34
REAR PLANTS INSTALLED & GUARANTEED
DESCRIPTION QUANTITY SIZE
Transplant: Viburnum 2
Autumn Brilliance Juneberry 1 2" BB
Feather Reed Grass 8 1 gal
Weeping Japanese Maple 1 #7
Honeymooners Holly 3 #5
Hakuro Nishiki Willow 1 2-Gal
Eastern white pine 1 6'
Mixed Perennials 47 4.5"
Indian Grass 7 1 Gal
Variegated Euonymus 12 2."
TOTAL PRICE: $ 2,752.31
LAWN WORK SOD
DESCRIPTION
Fine Grade; Sod
Pulverized Topsoil
TOTAL PRICE: $ 796.38
SUBTOTAL: $ 48,442.40
TAX: $ 538.95
TOTAL: $ 48,981.35
NOTES:
Staining, preserving and/ or painting of wood is not included.
Electrical outlet for lighting not included.
Repair of rotting sided or decking in the front porch area is not included.
Any advice or suggestions would be so appreciated!
Sarah and Andrew in Wisconsin
Comentarios (28)
yourenglishgardener
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosI agree with rhodium, you need to get at least 3 quotes.
Frankie_in_zone_7
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosAgree about the basic issue of competing bids for the same work.
I hesitate to even take a shot at the planting plans themselves, since we only have the lists and not actually the plan, and I know nothing about the areas you are 'scaping. Are your front and back areas pretty large? It seems you are putting in a large number of plant items, and so you would either need to have a lot of confidence in the landscaper's spacing, or know something about spacing and growth requirements yourselves. You have a lot perennial plants, grasses, and deciduous shrubs. Does that fit your intentions? I do see a few evergreen shrubs. If placed properly, the grasses and the bare branches can give good winter interest. Do you not need any real "trees"? Perhaps your property already has shade trees or other large-ish items, or maybe your property doesn't have room for them.
I just wondered, are you guys big gardeners and planning on dealing with the upkeep of grasses and perennnials? Since they're only listed as "mixed perennials," I can't get a feel for what's being accomplished there with a hundred or so perennial plants and what is the "look" you're going for. If you've got a large space, then it will absorb all that and perhaps more. Also, I'm so far south of you that I don't have the same feel for how one plants in the frozen north--it may be that with snow and such you have planned on areas that are best empty in winter, or not have evergreen branches to break under heavy snow, and instead have a lot of 3-season bloom and foliage variation to enjoy the rest of the year.
So the reason for questioning was not to be negative on your plan, but to encourage you to be informed enough to feel that you really wanted that particular plan, and that you understand what's being planted and why, and how you will take care of it. At least, did you have a conversation with your landscape designer that leads you to believe these aspects--how you want to use your property, what your level of skill and interest are in taking care of plants, etc--are being addressed?
I don't know what you've outlined as your top priorities, but usually you would try to focus first on important hardscape items that would add to your outdoor living enjoyment or to stabilizing soil or drainage problems, and the hundreds of perennials could come later. So if you need and will use the wall and the patio, you'd focus on that. You wouldn't ditch the patio just because it was the largest item, unless you don't really need one.
If you weren't sure how much plant life you're ready for yet, you might focus on one or 2 priority areas and do more in later stages. I would think that a $50k plan would not be too shabby to get the interest of professionals who do install in stages.
Another way to look at is, how did you arrive at this plan? This is an interesting quesion in either direction, as in, give a great professional a budget of $50 and some time to explore your heart's desires and lifestyle see what he/she would come up with, vs. have someone design a "landscape" and then see what it will cost to implement.
I am so not a professional at landscape design, that I may have made your decisions even more complicated! So I'll stop and hopefully someone wiser will chip in.
karinl
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosThe process of getting different quotes can be complicated. This firm has had to do the design and itemize it to cost it out. If you get a second quote, if you just hand them this list and ask them to quote, that takes a slice off the work they need to cover the cost of and thus gives the second company an advantage. It is also important to find someone you can talk to and work with. You could always express your discomfort with the price to the company who's given it to you.
Also important: what was your opening request to them? If you said $20,000 and they came up with this, then you aren't communicating.
Finally, you could always pick and choose off the list. I'm with Frankie in that this is a whole whack of plants, and there is a mark-up on each one as they are being selected and planted for you. Maybe purchase off this list the things you can't do yourself, or that have to be done first, like the stonework, and decide in increments whether you want to do the next steps with this company.
KarinL
laag
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosThis is a perfect quote if:
1. this is a company with a solid background doing quality work.(do they walk the walk or just talk the talk?)
2. they have left a trail of satisfied customers in their wake.(did they follow through, did they charge for a bunch of extras?)
3. you like what they have done.(it does not matter how great they are if you don't like what they do)
4. other contractors that met the above criteria are not priced less for the same elements (is there a viable alternative at a lesser cost?).
5. you are comfortable with them?
6. you value the benefits of having this work done as much or more than what it is going to cost you to have done?If the price is too much, what can be reduced or altered to bring the project into budget? Remember that there are two sides to this. You don't want to go over budget with your money - they don't want to go over budget in material and labor cost to earn their money. Pricing structure should be firm on what is offered, so you would need to reduce amounts or sizes or types of materials in order to get the price to shrink. I'm sure they will work with you to conform to your budget, but I'd be very shocked if they would just reduce the price without reducing what is being done.
wellspring
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosI have virtually no expertise to share regarding the bid. All I can muse upon would be the emotional side of decision making.
Let's assume you have checked out other built work by this company and you really like what you've seen and experienced. Your gut feeling working with this person, talking about your project, has all been good. All lights are green except for onethe price.
So the question I would ask is: How much do you love this home? How long do you plan to live here and enjoy your new landscape?
I finally have come to terms with the fact that I sincerely hope that my current house will not be my last. That is changing some of our decisions about renovations inside and landscape work outside. I still have an attitude that if we do something we should do it right, so we save up and do a little at a time, but the best we can afford. I don't know, I just guess that we will enjoy it for a little while and then the next buyer will benefit. That being said, however, there are any number of larger projects that we've decided to forego with the hope of someday putting money into the next place.
If I were given $50,000 and I were living in my present home, I would not spend that amount on the landscape. Instead I'd ask a real estate agent for help in determining the most cost effective way to prepare this home for sale and I'd work to finish essential projects, saving the bulk of the funds and hoping the housing market would turn around.
I'd also be sorely tempted to set aside about $10,000 for an awsome trip to northern Italy or Greece or possibly the Yugoslavian coast. But that happens to be a personal preference and priority. My small family--husband, son, me--love to travel and will sacrifice other pleasures in order to take special trips.
So I guess I'd also be asking myself what else I might like to use those dollars for. Some like travel. Some think that's frivolous. Others want to watch investmentsÂalthough I suppose that's a bit tragic these days.
If you love your home, and if you've been dying to get certain eyesores outside turned into something to enjoy, and if you are comfortable with what this design will accomplish, then go for it.
Wellspring
PROC.M. Nichols Landscape Co
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosI would think about the reputation of the company you are working with. If you are getting other estimates, make sure that you are compairing the same product and installation techniques. Watch the base as your most important part. depth of base and products used.
Embothrium
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosPresent contractors with a set of plans with what will be done and how it will be done spelled out, so that they are all bidding on the same things. To get a good feel for what the average price is in your market, get at least half a dozen quotes. A pattern should then begin to emerge, with several coming in at about the same amount.
hodakt59
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosSeems high for the fire pit work. The rest seems fine. based on info of message I would be $38,000.00
marcinde
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosWow. It's impressive that you can give a number so confidently with no indication of site conditions and a lot of missing info.
As a professional courtesy, I don't try to pick apart someone else's bid on a site I've never seen. I know I'd be thrilled to have a client come back to me and say "some guy on teh interwebz says I should pay $12K less."
mjsee
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosHave you seen this firm's other work? Are the homeowners pleased? I only got one bid for our ridiculous stone retaining wall/paver/grading/drainage project...because I'd seen the firm's other work and knew I wanted them to do it.
This is our "toe tag house" so I had no qualms spending big money to fix a perplexing drainage issue and replace a failing retaining wall. YMMV.
steveberry
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosThe other real question for me is-- What do you want out of this yard? Where is the money going in this design?
The reason I ask is that the pricing you've given us shows _a lot_ of hardsdcape work-- a wall in front, a wall in back, another wall, hardscape, etc. Is the site quite sloped? Is there a reason for so many walls?
You're obviously concerned about cost, and hardscape is where the money is almost always going to go. Plants cost much less. Thus, my question isn't really about the bid, but about the design. Beautiful hardscape doesn't necessarily make a wonderful garden, although it can sometimes be necessary, depending on the site.
In a gist, I don't know if it's a "high" bid or not because there's so little info available, but the number is large, whatever the case. 50 K is 50 K.
cybersal
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosAnother thing to consider, you say your home was 150K - if prices keep re-adjusting to more realistic values, you might spend the 50K and still end up with a home worth 150 to 180K.
If this company has a good reputation (check out) and you are happy with the plan then do it, but in stages.If you ever need to sell this home, it will be like parting with your Mom all over again.
susieq07
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosThat's a no brainer get a 2nd. and 3rd estimate, then decide... and I would not take any estimate they charge for...these are tough economic times everyone needs the work, now is the time for bargains, for you not them.
marcinde
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 años"these are tough economic times everyone needs the work, now is the time for bargains, for you not them."
YEAH! Stick it to those stupid contractors in their giant mansions, with their maids and fancy cars and kids in Swiss boarding schools!
rhodium
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosWhy's everyone digging up these old threads... nothing new to talk about? Spring is around the corner, and none to soon!
marcinde
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosI interviewed an SEO firm, and they were huge proponents of blog and forum spam to boost backlinks to our site. I told them to hit the bricks, because I think that sort of thing is tacky and obnoxious.
Clearly, some folks don't agree. Right, Utah?
greengardener07
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 años1/3 of the cost of your house? To me, that is WAAYYYYYYY too much.
Can you do some of the labor yourself? Friends and family usually help out at the price of food and drink.
You need to ask yourself one question: Is this a need or a want? In this economy, needs and wants have to match up perfectly. If they don't, go back to the drawing board!
countrygarden01
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosHello!
A lot of info, that is good. I joined to specifically "HELP". I have 23 yrs. experience in the horticulture industry. The points made by mjsee,marcinde,bboy,cmniholsdesigns,laag are exceptional!!! You are really creating an "Outdoor Living Space" that will definately give you the "WOW" factor and you will use this outdoor environment. I am not one to side w/ others in this field, for lack of knowledge of some of these so called "pro's" Here is an example: the majority of my work is from word of mouth and fixing CRAP from others. I have driven by job's that I have lost because there was not value placed on Vision, Function, & Workmanship. This is what I see and say time & again "You have to be Shtting me" I could of put three times the profit in my pocket had I done something like that and been done 3-4 wks. earlier. There is really a lot of craftsmanship & experience required in you're project. As I look over the quote it is elaberate in detail, which is good! The person you have consulted w/ really seems to be a visionary. Example: the back patio has two tiers, the hardscape material & style chosen is TOP, it appears there may be some inlays on the patio, boulders are included as part of the structure of the design, two tiers will make things seem much larger and give the feel of individual rooms, the detail outlined is TOPNOTCH! If you have this done make sure the plantings are done on berms, it adds an incredible amount of asthetics. I have done these elaberate "rooms", when they are done the amount of work becomes apparent and you will not regret for one second you hired someone who put there name on the job, paid close attention to detail, and was a visionary. O.k. the price: I thought it was a little high, see what they might do for price on a package deal. This is not a project for "JOE"!!!! Here is a helpful site for the market value of good lanscape: hostadirect.com It appears form the plant material you are zone 5? I have some great friends around Madison. Just curious where does you're quote come from? Preview their other completed projects similar to you'rs, it is well worthwhile to go on a "tour", let them take you. Let me know if I can help more. Later, Rickbindersbee
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosWe always try and get our clients to pay for a formal design plan specificially so they can take our plan and get quotes from other companies and end up with apples to apples bids. The hard thing with landscaping is bids are so subjective unless there is a plan they are based on. I agree with everyone else- get more bids.
I also agree that $50,000 is too much to spend given the cost of the house. I can't say whether or not the bid is overbid or not. It would have been a good idea to give the contractor a range of what you wanted to spend up front so as to avoid a design which is too expensive to install.
Labor is the biggest part of the expense so if there are things you can do yourself, it could save you. One thing to consider is having the contractor install the hardscape and infastructure only then doing the planting yourselves.
laag
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosThe price is driven by what is in the plan. There is a lot of hardscape in there which is what is driving the price and the cost of the home has nothing to do with it.
If the price is too high, reducing the amount of hardscape or the quality of materials is what needs to happen if it is disproportionate to the value of the house.
The bottom line is that everyone likes nice things, but not everyone can justify paying for them.
Granted, some people charge more than others. Some are worth paying more for depending on whether they bring added value into YOUR job. Others just charge high prices and are either not worth it in general or not adding more value to a particular job than someone else who charges less is.
There is no YES or NO answer to the question of "is this worth it?" most of the time.
countrygarden01
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosLaag,
You are so CORRECT!!!! Price is driven by "what is in the plan" There is a huge difference in the materials specified here. When you use "hardscape" materials of this quality & newness they will not bore you in the future; after all you don't want to redecorate in 5-10 yrs. Hence good design with vision will reward you for decades.
Later, Rickjosh1111
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosNooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! all i had to read is the price of the pavers!
josh1111
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosit isnt worth doing a landscap like this! unless your rich
countrygarden01
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosJosh,
Another know it all,? who hasn't researched the site or cost of these specific materials?Frankie_in_zone_7
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosAs noted in various ways so far, there are (at least) 3 questions at play: 1)What is a reasonable price for the work as outlined, as designed and using specified materials; 2) what approximation of the design and materials might be accomplished at lower cost ( hereby inferring that the OP is not interested in any higher cost), if the OP were given a range of options for both design and materials (and/or labor), and could "evaluate the value" of those in his life; and 3)What are the real estate market and OP-life issues that go into determining whether what kind of investment in the landscape is "appropriate".
The wording of the OP seemed to focus on #1, but since various typical real estate-focused statements were absent-- (this is our forever house; we can afford to give up $50 k, we just want to get the job done right and not be chumps; most of the houses in our neighborhood have done similar things and are selling for $200k +; and so on)--I can't really tell.
gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
hace 15 añosÚltima modificación: hace 9 añosConsideration of the issue of whether the bid quote is incompatible with the neighborhood real estate values aside, I find it rather presumptive that so many apparent 'landscape contractors' who have never laid eyes on either the site or the plan can state without equivocation that the bid is too high. Unless they have some sort of psychic precognition of the property, its topography and other soil conditions and the full details of what seems to be a rather extensive design plan, how can they possibly state with any conviction this is an excessive cost?
Several of the earliest reponses offer the best advice - get several quotes based on the same design plan and see how they compare. And be sure to ask for and see examples of existing work, especially jobs completed under similar circumstances. The complexity and cost of the installed landscape not being compatible with either the neighborhood or neighborhood property values is a determination that can only be realistically made by the homeowner based on their specific situation.
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rhodium