mel_dotta

First time renovator – need help with my design!

Mel
6 de Abril de 2018
última modificación:8 de Abril de 2018

We are in the process of designing our first kitchen reno and need some advice on the current design we have been quoted on. I'm not completely sold on what they have come up with and feel it could be designed better. Here are some points for discussion

1. Dishwasher, sink & bin need to be in alignment. Sink being in the middle, bin & dishwasher either side. The sink would need to be roughly in the middle of the island bench for this to work.

2. any advice on having the sink on the same side of the stovetop on the wall so the whole island bench is usable space & less dirty dishes on display? I'm planning on having a smokey mirror splashback, would this be painful to keep clean with a sink?

3. I'm not to happy on how this corner finishes, i was thinking of continuing the overhead cupboards & splashback to the end to create a corner for appliances?

4. the plan is put our drinks fridge at the end of the island bench with a waterfall edge, the rest will be bar stools. I have seen this done before, any comments?

5. They have allocated 2 cupboards for the pantry, will this be enough for a family of 4? We generally do have quite alot of food in our cupboards. Can you see another way of designing this to obtain more cupboards for pantry?

6. For the cabinetry, i would like a combination of black, white & timber in semi gloss. We will have wood laminate floors. Any suggestions on whether the black cabinets should be on overhead cupboards or bottom cupboards? Keeping in mind we have young children.

Your help would be greatly appreciated






Comentarios (50)

  • girlguides
    Doubt sink and dw would fit on stove bench but could have dw in island if you don’t rinse your dishes before putting on dw
    Mel agradeció a girlguides
  • girlguides
    Personally prefer sink in middle or at other end island do landing space for fridge and ovens
    Mel agradeció a girlguides
  • girlguides
    Re pantry you could always use other cupboards for add. food storage but should be big eno as goes into corner
    Mel agradeció a girlguides
  • girlguides
    Lots of comments on houzz bout black cabinetry
    Mel agradeció a girlguides
  • me me
    Perhaps measure shelving where you currently keep your food, and see how it compares with the planned new pantry.
    Mel agradeció a me me
  • siriuskey

    Do you have a floor plan of your house available?

    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • kiwimills
    I have my sink near my stove, and my island is free of clutter. But I don't have a mirror splash back..just a window, behind sink, which I guess gets a bit of water on, but not as noticeable as a mirror maybe.
    I just didn't want dishes left on my island. ( 5 kids)
    I would think finger prints would show on the shiny black . Get your kids to touch and lick a sample and see if you can live with it.
    Designers say dark cupboards below...light above
    Otherwise it looks top heavy, but do whatever works for you.
    If your pantry just has food, it might be ok. If it has plates and appliances too, might not be enough but you have loads of drawers and upper cabinets so a heap of storage so I would think it would be OK.
    Mel agradeció a kiwimills
  • Mel

    Kiwimills, where do you have your dishwasher?

    Here is our floor plan that we are proposing


  • kiwimills


    see..dishes!! Arggh...always dishes !!

  • girlguides
    Kiwi mills you need a deep sink - large deep esp black sink hides dishes well in my island
  • dreamer
    We have our beverage fridge in kitchen. It's not in the island but similar to what you are proposing. Works really well. People do not need to enter kitchen to get drinks. I would definitely include in your island. Would work really well.
    I have my sink in island and dishwasher to right of sink. It's intergrated, the cupboard with handle horizontal.
    With you proposed layout. With bar fridge and stools at island. The sink may get in the way.
  • dreamer
    I have looked at your house plan. I suggest you have a cabinet built the same design as kitchen cabinets, and build it into the corner of dining room. The corner that backs onto bathroom.
    You could then put beverage fridge, glassware etc into that corner.
    This would then free up island for more storage space. And the sink would be fine in island. By the way, my sink has dishes in it from breakfast, but you can't see them because of deep sinks.
    In my opinion dark cabinets on the bottom, light cabinets on top.
    No matter what age the people are using kitchen, there will always be finger marks, and no matter what colour cabinet.
  • kiwimills

    Girlguides, I need kids who know how to put them in a dishwasher !!

  • oklouise

    a plan of the adjoining rooms and any alfresco (with measurements) would help answer your questions

  • dreamer
    Another suggestion is to swap the position of your fridge.
    Similar to the attached photos.(obviously the feature window would not be there) This will give you the corner for appliances.
  • Mel

    Kiwimills, dishes on the sink is my pet hate! I’m defiantly thinking a black single deep sink for the kitchen. We have the 1 1/2 sink at the moment and never use the smaller side. It pointless if you have a dishwasher I think.

    Dreamer, thanks for your suggestions, I was thinking I could do something with this space so might look into that. I would prefer to have more storage in the island. Seems like such a waste having it in the island. I was considering having the fridge on the wall closest to the entrance of the kitchen but I do like the look of the overhead cupboards & splashback the full length of the wall.

    Oklouise, can you read that plan I posted or is it too small?

  • siriuskey

    It was very light and hard to read but I think I might be close. I was looking at you master as well as the side entrance and added a Mudroom. I would have 1 1/2 deep square sinks as it can save water, pots etc can fit into half, it's also good when you're cooking for draining if you have clean water in the other. Small appliances behind benchtop bi fold cabinets. cheers


    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • oklouise

    can't quite read the measurements but based on approximate dimensions you could have the sink against the wall


    but, having the sink on the island allows for a more generous corner counter space for using appliances and a stacked wall oven and microwave (and base corner cabinet 1050 x 1050 with 450 wide doors is ideal for storage of large appliances) and the wider pantry more accessible towards the entry
    an open bin space about 75cm wide with or without a door is ideal for twin bins out of site in the island and the dw can be loaded without crowding into the corner..

    Mel agradeció a oklouise
  • girlguides
    Last design looks great and seems to tick all your boxes
  • longbeachgrannyflat
    Instead of cupboards next to the drinks fridge, get drawers with extra long extendable runners to clear the breakfast bar overhang. You can then store( and see) either glasses for your drinks or crockery for your dining
    Mel agradeció a longbeachgrannyflat
  • Mel

    Thanks everyone for your comments and help. I think more and more I’m wanting the sink on the same side as the stove against the wall if I can somehow fit the dishwasher on that side. With very little time to clean I hate the thought of ppl dropping in and sitting at the bench with a dirty sink and plates in full view. So I’m thinking in order from kitchen entrance - dishwasher, sink, stovetop & overhead cupboards all along back wall, appliances cupboard at the end and wall to ceiling cupboards along short wall with fridge. Island bench drawers & bin, opposite side drinks fridge and seating area. Let me know if you think this configuration will work assuming it all fits. I’m really set on the longest wall having the full length of overhead cupboards

  • jo5043
    Could you move fridge to other (opposite) corner, have the larder where fridge is with microwave s I’ve, have an under bench oven and put sink against wall where the fridge is on your current plans (though along a bit)?
    This would allow you to avoid having sink in middle ..... personally I dislike sinks in islands as despite best efforts they don’t stay pristine or empty.
  • siriuskey

    Well I have just re figured your kitchen and put the sink in the Island, which is where I prefer to have the cook top, works for me.

    The drinks fridge, I have faced back into the kitchen this time but it can face which ever way on the same end, if it faces out into the room you could add a 30cm cook book shelf facing back into the kitchen so that the fridge sits flush to the over hang.

    Seeing that you have planned an Alfresco area opposite could this fridge be installed along that wall with BBQ etc, this would give you another 600 cabinet space?

    Our rubbish is kept in a 60cm 2 drawer cabinet with open plastic tubs inserted and lined with garbage bags, simple and tidy, it also means you can change where you might like your rubbish.

    Love a mirrored splash back but would go with normal silver mirror, lights and opens up the room when you have your back to it cheers


    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • kiwimills
    I love having my stove near my sink..I'm always washing my hands, filling a pot, emptying a pot and it's all right there..no turning around .
    Bin is under sink next to dishwasher
    Breakfast bar stays clear in case there is a knock at the door!
    Mel agradeció a kiwimills
  • dreamer
    Mel, with the layout as per your latest post, everyone in the kitchen using appliances, washing dishes, unpacking dishwasher etc will be on the same wall. When our children were small, that was not an issue. Now they are 18 and 21, they are cooking, washing preparing food as well. With the sink in island this just gives the extra room for all to do their thing at the same time.
    Mel agradeció a dreamer
  • siriuskey


    Now with both cook top sink and DW on back wall, Small appliances behind bi fold doors in the corner, stacked ovens and 1m wide x 60cm deep pantry with draws.

    Island now has Trash draws with a single smaller sink for prepping veggies from the fridge, drinks fridge and 60cm wide x 30m deep cook book shelf behind it


    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • oklouise

    so many choices...my own sink and stove are on either side of a corner and work perfectly for me and your sink along the back wall keeps views of most of the temporary mess out of sight as you arrive...NB unable to see the exact dimensions of the kitchen space so please confirm sizes

    btw your house plan is familiar, did you previously post under a different name?

    Mel agradeció a oklouise
  • dreamer
    Both these options look good but Mel stated she is set on

    "I'm really set on the longest wall having the full length of overhead cupboards"
  • siriuskey

    She may change her mind here's with the long wall with cook top and sink and small appliance cupboard with full height bi fold doors. Other wall fridge stacked ovens and 1400 corner pantry cheers



    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • kiwimills
    On that left wall you could have fridge, oven stack and a corner pantry like this ?
    Good use of a corner.
    Mel agradeció a kiwimills
  • siriuskey

    That's the same principal as the small appliance cabinet except you don't need a full height door, it can be used for either, depends on the space and how much you would like somewhere to store and use small appliances including toasters etc.

    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • Mel

    Wow thanks guys, you have all given me so much to think about. And yes oklouise, I did post under my husband’s name with our floor plan advice but thought I should just start up my account since it’s me posting. Siriuskey, I like your last design, I think it could work. Only thing I’m thinking is if someone is cooking while you are cleaning up will it be enough room between workstations. Something to think about. Thanks so much.

  • Mel

    Sorry thinking out loud again, what if I put the oven underneath stove and removed the oven tower all together. So going by siriuskey’s last design but swap around the dishwasher so it’s at the end then sink then stove and oven underneath. The smallest wall can then be fridge & decent pantry. Do u think this is a working triangle. Not sure where to fit a bin though to scrap plates etc. I have really tried to take everyone’s comments on board especially the one about when the kids get older. Something I didn’t really think about

  • kiwimills

    The bin can go under the sink if u don't want a free standing one . if you have an oven stack you got to keep it clean..underneath no one sees the dirt!

    If you want two ovens, or 1 1/2 u need a stack if happy with one then under bench works OK. U got to bend..but thems the sacrifices!!


    We had all 5 kids back in January, 15-27 yrs. Trust me...no one was up before 11 and then never in the house to help with dinner. ( out with friends, back sleeping, outside kicking a ball etc )

    So yes...if they are around when older their schedules will be all over the show except maybe a Sunday night when u get them off their beds/ phones to help u. Otherwise plan for two min in kitchen at one time


    IMO



    Mel agradeció a kiwimills
  • dreamer
    Every family is different. My young adults do cook. Usually preparing meals on weekends for their lunch for the week.
    So then I'm in there as well making dinner.
    Or all preparing our breakfast at the same time to get to work.
    Agree workspace for min two people. So if you have a wall of sink etc, even with two people, it may become a bit close.
    Mel agradeció a dreamer
  • dreamer
    Mel, just a thought. Remember to install power points in your island for appliance use. Just neatly tucked away under the bench top. Also which ever oven you decide on, if the budget allows, choose a pyrolytic self cleaning oven. They save the use of chemicals and labour. Good luck with your plans.
    Mel agradeció a dreamer
  • kiwimills

    See at 19 dreamer..mine get kicked out !! 2 to go.

    Mel agradeció a kiwimills
  • siriuskey

    If you look at re arranging the left side of the house, ie: ensuite/WIR/Laundry/Side entrance you could easily have a WIP off the kitchen which will give you the extra space you need to make your kitchen work better, I would most likely swap the cook top and sink over. Please consider using a 2 drawer cabinet with plastic bin inserts to take any rubbish. If you and your council are and should be into re cycling you need one for trash and another for re cycling bottles and cans etc, you could have a small vege bin sitting in the 1/2 basin while you use it and then move it into the PANTRY. cheers


    Mel agradeció a siriuskey
  • PRO
    Evergreen Walls Pty Ltd

    Hi Mel,

    In order to free up the island, I would suggest placing the sink next to the stove and rearranging the dishwasher to the other side of the bench as it will be a lot more ergonomically friendly.

    Cheers,

    Richard


    Mel agradeció a Evergreen Walls Pty Ltd
  • kiwimills

    Mel how do you feel about siris walk in pantry. I have one opp my sink and absolutely LOVE IT. Toaster plugged in ALWAYS! Jug, fruit bowl, phone..yes a land line, pen jar. Plates, drink bottles, food. I absolutely recommend one. If u can squeeze one in.

    Don't need doors, just an opening.. don't need cupboard doors, just shelves and a bench .

    Mel agradeció a kiwimills
  • Mel

    I have been very undecided as to whether I have a walk in pantry as there is potential there to have one. Only thing is I don’t like how the fridge is just sitting out there between two walls. Defiantly something to consider. I figured with the current design there would be heaps of space and wouldn’t need a walk in pantry (coming from one two door very small cupboard). Being my first Reno tho I’m a little unsure on exactly how much space I will have. I’m yet to draw it all up with the kitchen designer so maybe this will give me more of an idea. I do like the idea of the small sink in the island and large one on back wall. Do u think this is an overkill?

  • kiwimills

    Depends how you live. There was talk of a wine fridge near..so a small sink might be good. We have 5 kids ( had...three have left ) so didn't have a lot of " veg prep' we used frozen!

    So for me a 1 /1/4 sink works fine. I have no butlers sink in pantry.

    Just one sink...

    But we have a water / ice fridge door ( Bosch) so that is brilliant

    That is used more for drinks than the sink tap.

    We don't drink alcohol so the whole " preparing a drink" doesn't happen !!

    Ice and water is on fridge, washing hands / rinsing dishes in sink.


    How do you live.....!?


  • Mel

    Well I have been trying to take more notice lately on how much I actually use the sink and have realised that I use it a lot. I’m constantly washing my hands, cleaning up the tables, benches and general clean up between meals. What I hate the most when I’m cleaning up using the sink is the fact that I feel really boxed in by the window. Currently the sink is in front of the window and I really can’t wait for the wall to come down to join with the extension and it to feel more open. I started to wonder whether I would be happier with the sink in the island or a sink so I could still be a part of what’s going on while cleaning up. Yes we do like a drink or two so we would make a drink here or there but not enough to arrange the kitchen around it I don’t think. Apart from that we have lived here for the past 8 years with no overhead cupboards, very little bench space and a minnature pantry. I think any improvement would be amazing at this stage lol. Currently our laundry which is adjacent to our dining area and kitchen is where we store our appliances which we could possibly leave there when we have the new kitchen if we needed the extra space.

  • kiwimills

    Ha ha, yes...washing hands seems to be non stop!

    U have a dishwasher now ?

    U will use your breakfast bar for chopping/ making school lunches/ plating up/ getting cutlery/ making cereal/ making a cake etc

    Trust me...with a breakfast bar you are always part of the goings on.


    You will go to the sink to have time out looking out the window !!

    As you wash your hands for 12 mins so you don't have to chop another apple/ make toast / get someone a drink/ put some raisins in a bowl. / or cling wrap something.

    can't be done at a sink....:)




  • Mel

    Very true. YEs we do have a dishwasher thank god! With the new design if I have the sink against the wall where the stove is I will be looking at a blank wall, something I need think about. Having another small sink would be nice , though not if it’s going to cost a lot more in plumbing & Stone mason etc costs because I would probably want Undermount for both

  • kiwimills
    When you have a new kitchen..at least for the first few years..everything goes in the dishwasher straight away as you want ' it nice and new looking for as long as you can ' so your face will be in that more than looking at a wall!
    If your kids are old enough get one of them on the job of unstacking it. I found if that was done each morning I could cope ! I was happy to stack it cos I can get loads in, unlike anyone else it seems...so your benches are clear most of the time...as you are always stacking !
    Look for some pics of sinks in front of walls and see if that rocks your boat. If you had a walk in pantry you could have a sink in there as well? Small one. But I am a big fan of a breakfast island with nothing on it. Others love their sinks in the island...you just need to work out exactly what you like ! I know..hard
  • kiwimills
    Here are some pics with sinks in front of walls.
  • dreamer
    Inspiration, for sink in island.
  • parkinclan

    Late to this exchange but here’s our comments: first, dont have the ovens right next to the fridge. Think about opening doors esp when youre cooking! we have microwave under bench in the island and 2 other ovens in a stack at the end of a run of cupboards. This would finish off the end of the cupboard run as you have expressed concern about how it finishes. Also think about having some open shelves in the upper row of cupboards for cookbooks and the odd decorative ornament. Helps break up the cupboard expanse. Definitely keep the sink on the island bench with the dishwasher to one side. if you have an undermount sink try a Blanco double bowl black one. Will match with your black glass oven and induction top if you have one in mind. If you have timber floors like us we kept the cupboards all white, otherwise too overpowering when the timber fad disappears and all white timeless kitchen cupboards return. Ours is a big kitchen and we had to work around structural poles but the pics might help you with new ideas.


  • PRO
    Collaborative Interiors

    Hi Mel,

    Kitchens are an integral part of any home and particularly a busy family, so much to consider. I personally think an Island clear of any sinks or utilities makes for a more workable space. It lends itself to food prep, kids homework, meals, guests perched on a bench whilst you prep. Sinks always accumulate mess so I think a sink put to the side works better. Gone are the days where you will stand at a sink hours at a time. Think about how you like to cook and use a kitchen a cooktop not far from the sink works best think straining pasta pots, vegies etc..

    As for butler's pantry's I'm not a fan, why spend money on a lovely kitchen only to be cooped up in a small kitchen off to the side, very unsociable. Houses are made to be lived in and sometimes that comes with a little mess particularly in the kitchen. Don't hide away in a butlers pantry embrace your home and kitchen and all that it entails.

    I recently completed a kitchen with a similar colour scheme to what you are suggesting black, white and timber, I anchored the kitchen with the black Island and used white cabinets for the rest of the kitchen. Matt surfaces are on trend at the moment as opposed to gloss or semi gloss, matt finishes hide finger prints and children's hand marks better, dust will show up on darker surfaces so be mindful of this. I adore natural materials and feel that a timber floor really adds warmth. Take a look at the kitchen I recently designed for my clients, would love to hear your thoughts.

    Happy to assist you any way - Good luck with your renos. Thanks Collaborative Interiors

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