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dmalma

Unusual Pool Leak Caused By Negligent Contractor

dmalma
hace 7 años
última modificación:hace 7 años

Hi all. I'm hoping for some expert advice. I have 3 Pentair
lighted bubblers on my baja shelf. 2 of the lights failed and need replacing.
Unfortunately the pool plaster company didn't cover up the conduit when they
plastered my new not-even-a-year-old pool (plaster was done in January) so the
conduit is full of plaster, which means it's impossible to get the wire out of
the conduit to replace the lights. The owner of the plaster company (an
extremely surly guy) worked for 2 full days (Wednesday and Thursday of last
week) to try to clear the conduit so he could get the old wires out and the new
wires in. He first tried acid but that didn't work so he tried using a drill
with a fish tape attached and that didn't work.
In fact, not only didn't it work, it broke the conduit under the baja
shelf causing a leak. He broke the pipe
on Wednesday and I discovered the leak Thursday morning (24 hours later) when I
saw that the water level had dropped and the pool water had turned murky from
dirt backing up into the pool from the broken pipe, plus my paver pool deck had
water seeping up between the pavers.
When the owner of the plaster company returned Thursday morning to
continue working on clearing the conduit I told him about the leak and he said
he would use epoxy to plug it. Before he
plugged it up though he again tried all day to clear the conduit for both
lighted bubblers to no avail. When it
became too dark to work he left and hasn't been back. Before he left he plugged the leak, but over
the past couple of days I noticed that the water has been dropping about
3/8" a day (air temp during the day has been in the low to mid 50's,
during the night in the upper 30's, and with no wind) and water is still
seeping up through the pavers. Here are
my questions/concerns:

  1. Is 3/8" a day
    water loss under those conditions normal or do I still have a leak? I live on a hill and am worried about the
    stability of the soil now with all the leaking.
  2. What is the proper
    way to repair this leak (and clear the conduits since they're still plugged)? Due to the plaster company's negligence,
    first in filling the conduit with plaster and second with breaking the conduit,
    I now have to worry about leaks for rest of the life of my NEW pool, if I accept epoxy
    as a proper way to fix this major problem.
    I know people use epoxy to plug leaks in pipes, behind lights, etc. but
    this leak is under a shelf and the break appears to be where the sweep meets
    the pipe under one of the lighted bubblers, which means getting any light in
    and out from now on (especially with epoxy in there) will be impossible.

I'm pretty upset and feel that, since the plaster company
was extremely negligent from start to finish, they need to repair the leak
properly and not just put a band-aid (aka epoxy) on/in it. They also need to get both conduit lines
open. I can't figure out any way to properly fix these problems, especially the
leak, other than to demo out the baja shelf (it's 12'x8') to get to the conduit
and replace it. Of course, that would
leave my baja shelf badly scarred with highly visible patches since the water
is only 9" deep there. My pool is
NEW, but damaged now from the plaster company's negligence, so I'm having a
hard time accepting the fact that I have to choose having either a plug (which
is a worry because I think it's already leaking and will cause problems for repairs in
the future) or extremely noticeable patching.

Does anyone have any experience with a problem like
this? Is my only choice the lesser of
two evils or should the plaster company being doing something more for me?

Thanks for your help.

Area in question. (The owner of the plaster company put the pipes in to funnel acid down into the conduit to try to clear the lines.)

Respuesta destacada
  • PRO
    Aqua-Link Pools and Spas
    hace 7 años

    Sorry to sorry to hear this. The only way to fix a broken pipe or conduit leak unfortunately is to demo the area up and replace it. To minimize the patch you could demo the pebble just off the reef step and blend it into the pool on the front edge where the reef drops into the pool. Or demo all the pebble. Unfortunately there is no easy fix for this.

    Comentarios (10)

    • 5birdy
      hace 7 años

      I am so so sorry for your troubles, especially with the beautiful coping and pavers! Did your original pool builder offer any suggestions? What does your contract say about warranty? Seems like your pool should still be under original warranty. If none of these people are willing to help you, perhaps a reputable pool builder experienced with remodeling could help you by either fixing the problem or filling in the bubblers altogether. Hope someone here offers solid advice. I just know water leaking on a hill would cause horrific nightmares.

      dmalma agradeció a 5birdy
    • dmalma
      Autor original
      hace 7 años

      Thanks to both of you for your responses! (I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner. I wasn't sure anyone was monitoring this forum anymore and so I didn't check back until today.) Everything has been on hold because of the holidays, but we just had 2 pool repair companies tell us (just like Aqua-Link said) that the only way to fix the problem is to demo the baja shelf. Both companies also said since both conduits are still plugged (and one is definitely broken), and it's not known where the break is, the best thing to do is demo the entire shelf and re-plaster it (just like Aqua-Link said). Hopefully the area where it will be blended will not be noticeable. Aqua-Link, have you done this type of repair before and is it possible to blend it nicely?

      Btw, the owner of the pool plaster company is being a real jerk about the whole thing. My husband spoke to him and told him that we wanted the leak/broken conduit/plugged conduits fixed properly and he became very surly and said he thinks his epoxy fix is the proper way to solve the problem and even wanted to come back today to continue to drill out the other plugged conduit. If his drilling broke the other pipe and he's already spent 2 full days trying to clear the conduit for both pipes to no avail, what makes him think trying it again will work?? He really doesn't care how much damage he causes because he figures he can just patch things cheaply and be on his way. He definitely doesn't want to fix things properly or pay to have things fixed properly. His words to my husband: "I'm not paying to fix the unbroken pipe (even though it's plugged with plaster that he can't get out) and if you don't want an epoxy fix you'll have to pay to demo the shelf yourself to fix the pipe and live with an ugly plaster patch in that area". Customer service is not his strong suit. Amazing that he can act like we're being unreasonable when he's the one who plugged the pipes to begin with, broke the pipe when trying to clear it out, and still can't clear the pipes so we can replace the lighted bubblers. It takes nerve to act like that, I tell you. We've decided we don't want this guy back on our property. He doesn't care, doesn't take care, and every time he comes to our house he damages something. (He's damaged the pool equipment so we've had to have it replaced. He damaged the pool coping when he was trying to fix the lights. I could go on and on about the problems we've had with this guy, but you get the idea of what his work is like.)

      Anyway, thanks so much for your help/support. :) If you have any other advice/tips for me regarding this repair I'd really appreciate it!

      Thanks again.


    • PRO
      Aqua-Link Pools and Spas
      hace 7 años

      Yes I have repaired a reef step that had bad shotcrete on it (rebound) that the original builder had shot and I was able to blend in the pebble on the front edge. Where is your pool builder in all this?

      dmalma agradeció a Aqua-Link Pools and Spas
    • 5birdy
      hace 7 años

      dmalma, I asked my husband why we didn't put these lighted bubblers in our pool (because it sounds like something cool we would have wanted), and he said our pool builder immediately talked us out of it because they fail and cause problems!

      dmalma agradeció a 5birdy
    • ncrealestateguy
      hace 7 años

      Where is your pool builder? A one year old pool should be under warranty.

      dmalma agradeció a ncrealestateguy
    • PRO
      www.SwimmingPoolSteve.com
      hace 7 años

      I think the fact that this fellow has been out working for 2 whole days to solve the problem is a clear indication that he agrees that he is at fault. He is probably crapping his pants over this situation and the surly attitude is a defense mechanism. In my opinion, I would not accept an epoxy repair. As others have indicated you should demo the bench and redo the plaster after the repairs to the conduits have been made. It sucks, and the repair guy will probably not agree since it should be coming out of his pocket, but if this were my pool that is what I would want. Lots of pool guys think epoxy counts as a repair...it seldom does. It is the swimming pool literal equivalent of a band aid.

      dmalma agradeció a www.SwimmingPoolSteve.com
    • PRO
      Mystic Pools, LLC
      hace 7 años

      Re-plastering is the best thing to do. Consider this. Along the leading edge of the shelf, install tile that matches your water line tile. It will provide a break and allow for an easy blend of the new plaster. Come in say, 2" from the edge.

      As others have said, where's the pool builder on this?

      dmalma agradeció a Mystic Pools, LLC
    • dmalma
      Autor original
      hace 7 años
      Última modificación: hace 7 años

      Thanks everyone for your responses/help. We don't have a pool builder
      because we were owner-builder up to shotcrete. After that, we used a
      licensed pool plaster company for the tile, coping, stone, plaster (i.e. all
      the finish work). The owner of the pool plaster company maintains that an
      epoxy plug is a good fix for the broken conduit. However, we've had 6
      licensed pool contractors out to assess the damage and NONE of them said an
      epoxy plug is the proper way to fix the leak. ALL of them said that the
      shelf would need to be completely demo'd and the conduit (to all the lights)
      replaced. At this point the conduit to only 1 lighted bubbler is clear,
      at least enough to get the wire through. The other 2 pipes are still
      completely blocked (and 1 is broken). Another thing ALL the pool
      contractors told us is replastering just the shelf will not look good.
      They ALL said it will look like a big patch: The color won't match
      the rest of the pool and there will be a
      12 foot wide, highly noticeable demarcation line where the 2 plasters meet and,
      since the water depth is only 9 inches deep, there's no way you won't see
      it. (FYI, we thought about adding a line
      of tile to try to cover up the demarcation line, but quickly realized that it
      would be an odd look for the design of our pool and just end up looking like
      we're covering something up. Plus the
      plaster color would still look different than the rest of the pool. Only one contractor considered doing that at
      first, but then thought about how it would look with our pool and said there's
      no way it would look right/not look out of place.) Since all
      the contractors said our pool is going to look pretty crappy with such a huge
      patch (and we want our pool to look right) we've decided to replaster the entire pool and are going to recover as much
      money as we can from the plaster company's surety bond. We're also going to try to find out if they
      have general liability insurance since they damaged pipes that were already
      existing when they began their work.

      3 of the pool contractors we talked to told us a couple of interesting
      things that we were hoping to get clarification on:

      1. They said since the area of the shelf is
        more than 10% of our pool it's more likely that the plaster company's surety
        bond company would accept a full replaster of the pool as the proper fix rather than just patching/replastering
        the shelf. Has anyone heard of this? Btw, the pool contractor we've decided to go with put in their estimate (and is going to tell the bond company) that a full replaster is the only way to make the pool look right (i.e. not look like it's been patched).
      2. Our pool plaster was supposed
        to be Stonescapes Midnight Blue (it's written in our contract), but the pool
        contractors we spoke to said that unless the plaster company handed us a warranty
        certificate from NPT then we didn't get what we paid for: A true Stonescapes product backed by NPT's warranty. They said it's common
        for pool companies to say that they're going to install Stonescapes, charge the
        customer a higher $ amount, but then use a cheaper product (i.e. either not use
        Stonescapes at all, or buy the stones from NPT but mix it with a cheaper plaster not warranted
        by NPT). Does this sound right?

      Any input would be greatly appreciated!

    • PRO
      Mystic Pools, LLC
      hace 7 años

      "They said it's common for pool companies to say that they're going to install Stonescapes, charge the customer a higher $ amount, but then use a cheaper product..."

      This statement is appalling!
      I find it incredible in my industry that this way of doing business still continues.

      Again a rogue "pool professional" spoils the barrel for the legitimate contractors.

      Once again, where is your pool builder on all this? When we contract for a new pool, we provide everything and stand behind our work. We prefer keeping the entire job under our wing mostly because we have a set crew of trusted subs we have worked with for years. In my case-31 years. It also allows us to schedule our jobs and keep the flow going, which is paramount. We also are solely responsible for all the work and handle any issues that may arise.

      I'm not sure of your arrangement with the plaster contractor, but if the pool contractor has recommended him he should be concerned about his reputation.

      Perhaps you should go through your contract(s) and be certain the items and the work listed have been provided. Insurances and licenses are current.

      Document all your interactions and take photos.

      I am not familiar with the surety bond process. Unfortunately, I don't think you will recover all your funds as the insurance companies generally want to make a "deal".

      Best of luck.

      dmalma agradeció a Mystic Pools, LLC
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