Switching builders early- should I pay the first one anything?
Got the house plans, got all the bids. House is now costing SIGNIFICANTLY more than we'd budgeted- around 100k higher. We've tried shaving off any upgrades we can, and dropped the square feet. We know other builders can build our original plans for way less without necessarily compromising quality, although our question is "how?"... So, we're thinking of switching to another builder and saving a huge amount. I wonder if it's courtesy to compensate the builder we've been working with, for his/his office's time (we've had only a couple meetings so far).
Comentarios (26)
acm
hace 8 añosNot clear what "got all the bids" means if you're working with somebody who's way too expensive. Anybody should expect you to sketch out your designs enough for a pretty accurate bid, but then maybe do the same with somebody else. There might be some fees for architect time, e.g., but you're not under obligation to continue if the project won't work. If you've just been talking so far, then I can't believe you have any obligation at all, especially if none was discussed and nothing was signed.
User
hace 8 añosWho drew up the house plans? Did you purchase the plans from an architect and then try to find a builder? If they are your plans and you own them, get bids from at least three builders.Jonesie
Autor originalhace 8 añosFor clarification, we already had an architect design the house, and the plans are pd for. We chose a builder based on reputation/experience, knowing he may be slightly higher (turns out it's much higher than we thought), but quality is important of course. I'm wondering now though, if all homes must meet code, how bad can the others be? Especially if we can save a bunch of money going with a diff builder? So, my question would at this point be, if we choose to go with another builder am I obligated to pay anything to our current builder. Nothing has been signed yet. It would basically be a "I appreciate your time, but we're moving to another builder" courtesy payment.
teamaltese
hace 8 añosIf you have no contract, you owe nothing. Have you discussed this issue with the builder?smileythecat
hace 8 añosIt would seem alright, aside from bids and estimates, no real work has been done correct? It would mean starting over with the bidding process. In the meantime things just get backed up and more expensive. Its extremely busy in this part of the country, maybe yours as well. Have this conversation with your current builder its possible you and them can come to anunderstanding..
Jonesie agradeció a smileythecat
texasboykin
hace 8 añosIn my opinion you are under no obligation. The builder knows that that is part of doing business. If it were me I would call the custom builder and at least tell them why you need to be moving on and be honest with them. Also remember the old saying "you get what you pay for". Get a few more bids to compare.Jonesie agradeció a texasboykin
Angel 18432
hace 8 añosHave you spoken to the "high end" builder and let him know of your concerns, maybe he can sharpen his pencil a bit, then he will know why you are seeking other proposals. Having gone through a similar situation in the past, when dealing with a "high end" builder he usually has very high standards for finishing, that he likes to build his homes to, as they are his showpieces. Other builders can be good, but don't build a "show off" home. There are a couple of builders in my area, (not mentioning any names), but I know right off the top of my head their homes are going to be a cut above in style and in price.
Jonesie agradeció a Angel 18432
bichonbabe
hace 8 añosKeep in mind that being code compliant has nothing to do with the quality of finishes. An inspector does not care if grout lines are inconsistent etc. He/she is only looking for safety issues.
Jonesie agradeció a bichonbabe
PROCreative Tile Eastern CT
hace 8 años"how bad can the others be?" The answer has some terrible tales attached to it. Months of stress, frustration and cost over runs. Only to be dissatisfied with the completed project and have to live with it. Is there a price you would pay to avoid this scenario?
Jonesie agradeció a Creative Tile Eastern CTteamaltese
hace 8 añosYou really should do your due diligence. Check licenses, BBB, Angie's List, Houzz reviews, and Google for other reviews. Ask for references, and talk to them, ask to see work in progress. Ask what other companies the builder works with, other trades, and check them out as well. That is the only way to tell what the finished product will be, quality wise. We allowed our contractor to bring potential clients over while he was renovating. His quality of work got him a lot of new business. He always brought people in while we were home.Jonesie agradeció a teamaltese- PROJonesie agradeció a User
PROHrivnak Associates, LLC
hace 8 añosEnlist the help of your architect. He/she will help you evaluate bids and help get apples to apples numbers. Should also assist you with your contract with the GC. Consider an open book cost plus a negotiated fee. Consider buying many of the materials (you, too, can get discounts) directly and having the GC coordinate delivery and do installation/construction to eliminate markups there. If you have time, wait and bid in the middle of the winter requiring bids to be good for ___ months to get you to construction season. Winter bids when they're not busy can be significantly less. They have a project to do just as soon as the weather breaks and that's of value to them. By the way, your architect might have helped you with getting parameter pricing from one or more GC's at the conceptual phase to help avoid this. If you go to "low bid", I agree with MS Colours. Again, enlist your architect to sign off on payment requests with holding back a percentage until punchiest completed satisfactorily. Satisfactorily, not perfection. If the GC wants to get paid, they'll have to respond to the architect's reviews. Negotiate. Use your architect as trusted advisor/leverage. More? Message me if I can help.
Jonesie agradeció a Hrivnak Associates, LLC
PRORaleigh Cabinets & Remodeling
hace 8 añosIf you not sign any documents with builder you don't have to pay .Good Construction plans have materials descriptions and any builder must use materials what is in spec documents each stage of Construction must be inspected if something NOT up to Construction CODE Inspector not approve it.
Jonesie agradeció a Raleigh Cabinets & Remodeling- PRO
Raleigh Cabinets & Remodeling
hace 8 años"you get what you pay for" very Old saying ....How days Spec house call "custom home and people just pat a lot for JUNK HOUSE e-mail to me your blueprint I let you know real cost to build your house.
gtcircus
hace 8 añosYou need to discuss with the builder your budget and then your plans. I had an architect draw plans and the roof pitch was so steep that it added 35% to the cost of the roof. My builder suggested altering the pitch to save money. Many architects are great at drawing plans but fail to appreciate the cost of implementing the plans. You need to ask the builder what is driving up the cost of the construction and LISTEN. My experience is that if you go cheap, you will end up paying for it in the long run. Get bids, but a good reputation in construction is priceless.Jonesie agradeció a gtcircusUser
hace 8 añosYou have two threads on this same subject. It's a pain to read both. You may get more responses from some of the pros if you delete or consolidate one.
Where do you live? Florida or some place in the south? A 3,000 square foot new build around here in Nor Cal,would be well over a million.
PROJAN MOYER
hace 8 añosÚltima modificación: hace 8 añosAside from this is a duplicate posting, a 3,000 square foot house of ANY medium quality and finishes probably can not be built these days for less than 175 a sq foot unless you are the builder, (or it is super modern and without detail). Even that number will not imply a 100k kitchen or a 70k master bath.Thus you are talking about a home that should run about 580 k. at that square footage, and still assumes you can live with less luxury than your "dream" finishes. It's the reason it's hard to recoup full value on a new build, unless you plan to stay quite a while. Whoever told you 337k was building you a "put your finger through the drywall, plastic faced cabinets , fake hardwood, shake in the wind , box. The builder who quoted you 444k was more realistic, and apparently you presented some selections which drove it higher. Frankly, I am guessing you live in a climate requiring only a slab foundation, as in the north the number would be more like 700k. MINIMUM. New construction 25 years ago was a hundred dollars a sq foot, here, and a "dream house" of beautiful finishes/fixtures/appliances can triple or quadruple that number easily. Very easily. I quoted your earlier pricing from your other post:
[https://www.houzz.com/discussions/comparing-two-dramatically-different-bids-for-new-construction-dsvw-vd~3437972?n=5[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/comparing-two-dramatically-different-bids-for-new-construction-dsvw-vd~3437972?n=5)
I also just answered my own question with that updated dupe thread. Texas is the location, thus slab foundation, and perhaps a much less expensive labor pool of subs ( ahem) along with fewer state regulations/insurance/codes and whatever else would be my guess.
PROSaari Masonry
hace 8 añosYou can get certain contractors to bid phases of your construction. If you like the quality builder, have them do the detail, and trim work. Could cost more in add ons though if your rough framers do a poor job though. I would get 5 more bids, and discuss options. Let them know that the bid is far our of budget.
Oh, FYI. There is a shortage of construction workers right at this moment in different areas of this country right now. I was working in the Metro Twin Cities this summer, and they are having a hard time finding qualified workers. If you are in an area like this, your costs will be significantly higher. They are all competing to keep, and hire workers. The contractors have to pay more because if they dont, the good workers will jump ship. Keep this in mind. You dont want the contractor who is paying newbies 12 an hour. You dont want your square home to become a rhombus. I really have seen this happen, and the truss set, and exterior walls were a nightmare. Be careful people!- PRO
Saari Masonry
hace 8 añosP.S. People who ask questions about building a new house like does it need to be built to code scare the snot out of me! - PRO
JAN MOYER
hace 8 añosÚltima modificación: hace 8 añosSaari,
What scares the heck out of me is the lack of "process" so evident here. Apparently no "specs" from the architect for the underpinnings, no actual reference point for interior selections from the potential owner, and the oopsie moment comes at the point of someone ready to start nailing boards and applying Tyvek wrap and faux stone.
User
hace 8 añosUnrealistic expectations and the lack of funding to do the job properly leads to all of the disasters so frequently posted here. This is going to be another one of those. You don't have the funding to build the house you want to build. Period. Stop. End of sentence. End of discussion, really.
Downsize the house significantly. Upsize the budget significantly. That's your two realistic choices. Anything else is smoke blowing BS from people looking to take your money and leave you with a disaster.
- PRO
Saari Masonry
hace 8 añosGood call, find a different architect, or engineer to draw up more practical plans for your budget - PRO
Mountain Consulting Group
hace 8 añosYou're headed to a very ugly and unpleasant ending here. I've been on the inside of 100s of the best-performing homebuilders (of all sizes) in the US and Canada for the past 25 years - that's what I do - consult with homebuilders. I was going to try to write something to educate you about reputable builders and costs - but it's already been said a dozen times in this thread. Yes you should pay your builder - you should give them a REWARD for telling you the truth about what things costs and not trying to low-ball you or mislead you just to get the contract. If you want to spend less- either lower the level of your finishes, or lower the total square footage of the job. It's just that simple. There is no magic wand here - things cost what they cost and all reputable builders have roughly the same overhead structure. And - unless you better-educate yourself, God help the builder who winds up with you as their customer.
- PRO
Mountain Consulting Group
hace 8 añosOne more thing - "building codes" are nothing but absolute *minimums* designed to protect life safety. That's all. Code enforcement does not concern itself with project scheduling, with aesthetics or artful workmanship, nor for the most part with usability of the design or 1001 other aspects that make a house a home... and that make it possible for you to RESELL it later. A screwed-up job is a forever disaster. "How bad can it be?" Ohhhh it can be much much worse than you can possibly imagine. How about spending years litigating an UNFINISHED project that you'll still be paying a large monthly mortgage on, and may not even be able to to occupy - while the low-ball builder you hired is long out of business. How 'bout dealing with years of constant out-of-warranty repairs and remodeling to correct substantial defects of omissions from the original job - or even just having to replace things in 5-6 years because your low-ball builder did not have an adequate budget to install items that would last the length of your mortgage? How 'bout losing your marriage over the stress of a failed construction project - I've seen that dozens of times. You want horror stories - we've got 1000s of them. And then there's the ability to re-sell the home later for what you have in it. Low-ball now and you'll regret it forever. The 'fix" of course is to scale back your project to one that, instead of being at 100% of your budget.... is 75% of your maximum budget. Follow the principles in Sarah Susanka's "Not So Big House". Build smaller - but with good solid universal design. Hire absolutely the best builder with the best reputation in the area - and then let him/her do his/her job without second-guessing their well-tuned process or micro-managing. THAT is how you have a successful project.
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Brickwood Builders, Inc.