monkeyninja

Toilet quiz!

monkeyninja
8 de Junio de 2015

I'm hoping there's an easy answer to some simple toilet questions - I have been googling away but its been a little frustrating. So I need a rear-outlet compact-elongated toilet that is not wall-mounted.

1 - Is a rough-in even a thing with rear-outlet toilets?

2 - Does the flush mechanism make a difference? (gravity vs. wash-down, etc.?)

3 - Does it matter whether I go for Kohler, Duravit or Toto (i.e. all kind of premium brands)

4 - Does it matter whether its a 1 piece or a 2 piece?

5- Does it matter if a toilet is comfort height (I'm normal sized!).

6- Do GPF matter if I don't care about the amount of water used (more is better right?)

7- What are you favorite choices for compact elongated rear-outlet toilets?


Thanks all!


Comentarios (27)

  • hoping2
    There's a website inspectapedia.com, that has a "little encyclopedia of toilets." It has lots of information and might help you. All the brands you mention are high quality - the narrow tank you need might be the determining factor.
  • pdk920

    If you're normal height and not handicapped, a "comfort-height" toilet is higher than necessary and not as comfortable (in spite of the name) to use. The higher toilets are not pleasant for short people unless they really need the extra height to sit and rise.

  • hoping2
    You could also look at Caroma Sydney Smart rear outlet, Saniflo toilets, and European type toilets. Another option (although perhaps difficult with your contemporary taste) is an elevated tank. With the brick wall you might be able to pull if off. Make an appointment at a plumbing supply store (or two - they carry different brands) and talk to both the designers and the plumbers there. Your plumber can probably recommend supply houses for you, and tell you what else has worked in the building. Supply houses often discount to plumbers, and the people there usually are more knowledgable than clerks at big box stores. It is worth your time. Bring your drawings with dimensions showing as much detail as possible.

    I disagree with the comment that comfort height toilets are not comfortable. They are the same or shorter than standard seating (couches, chairs). It seems as if most rear outlet flushes are not gravity fed. In general, the noise of newer toilets has been reduced from older models, but always ask.

    Have you met with an architect yet?
    monkeyninja agradeció a hoping2
  • pdk920

    Exactly. If you are about 5', with short legs, modern chairs and couches are uncomfortable and too deep unless you stuff a pillow behind you -- not an option on the toilet. Truthfully, there is no single height that fits all.

  • monkeyninja

    Thank you for the tips! checking out the links. I get the feeling that Duravit might have some good products. I have the architect ready to go, however, I want to be more instructional by giving him the products I want installed, rather than having him look for options for me (which will cost me significantly if I have this kind of back and forth). It is my intent to provide him with everything I want - and if it won't work, then we'll work backwards from there :).

  • hoping2
    You are smart to explore your options like this, but an architect will especially help with the floor plan. Exploring options is also what you could do with plumbing supply shops, for free. If you've never been to one, some - like Ferguson's, have lighting, medicine cabinets, appliances etc., in addition to fixtures. Duravit has a great look - is there a showroom for their line near you?
  • monkeyninja
    Hmm I have not visited a plumbing supply store - although I spent a bunch of time in the Duravit showroom yesterday in Manhattan (I live here). I think I found the best toilet that is rear-outlet and will work. It's the Stark 2 floor standing toilet. Total length is 27.25 inches (the entrance way starts at 31 inches). It'll give me about 50 inches of clearance to the sink also.

    It's also just over 14 inches wide so that will still give 15 inches of clearance on the non-steam pipe side from the center of the toilet. (Steam pipe extends 10.5 inches off exterior wall. If I position the tank 11 inches off this wall, it will give me enough room as long as the bathroom is 33 inches wide in total).

    The issue now is that the tank is only 7 inches deep and we know the steam pipe edge is 9.5 inches off the brick wall. Annoying as there is a real risk my arm will touch the pipe when I am sitting on the loo. Two options - either build a 2-3 inch deep wall behind the pipe (against which the toilet will sit) in which case the tank will extend beyond the edge of the pipe. Or keep the toilet against the brick wall and just wrap the damn pipe with sisal rope (common here in NYC).

    Questions:

    1- If I do build a small wall a few inches out, it'll push the bowl edge of the toilet right up to the entrance way - do you think this will look bad?

    - if my plumber is running the waste pipe along the window wall and behind / around the steam pipe to where the toilet would be, then Would building a wall help to conceal all these pipes (are there also other pipes that go behind a toilet???). If aesthetically it would look cleaner to have a wall, I should consider it, but how thick will that wall need to be to hide the pipes?) if the wall needs to be any more than 4 inches off the brick wall, the edge of the toilet bowl will encroach into the entranceway.

    2 - will a wall of a few inches thickness (which I would only have go as high as the tank height) look weird? I may have to build it higher than tank height and put a shelf above it.

    3- many people use the rope approach - it's common and in all honesty it saves me from having to have a wall built - what's your view on the aesthetics of this in a modern bathroom.

    Btw I have ramped up my architect. He worked on the exact same model apartment in the building for a friend so most of my plans are the same as hers (broadly) - I have some issues that she doesn't (since she is on the top floor she was able to cut the pipe off and so she doesn't have the issue that I do!). Also she is putting a bathtub where I am proposing to put my shower!). In any case the architect will advise me on all new problems we come up with -- I do want to make sure I have thought through everything and tell him my specific before he tells me why I can't do it :)

    I am meeting the plumber against post-demo once he can see under the floors in the event there's a solution to run the pipes under the joists instead of along the wall!

    Fun! I love trying to solve these impossible problems.
  • hoping2

    Good for you going to the Duravit showroom and finding a toilet!

    No, I don't think having the toilet come up to the edge of the doorway is a problem with a pocket door. But 24" is very narrow for the bath entry. If the door is 30" or even 27" it will be a lot better. Having the door off center on the kitchen wall is not as important as a good bathroom arrangement.

    Back when you were considering a wall-hung toilet I mentioned Geberit had a shorter in-wall system, and thought the brick would look nice above the drywall for that, with a shelf over the top of the wall. Same goes here, although I think your plumber might be able to extend a pipe for a few inches from the toilet to the wall. It could save you from burns, and save $s! I'll keep my fingers crossed that the plumber says he can route the lines under or around the joists.

    The rope solution may work, if it isn't a fire hazard. If it doesn't look modern enough, you could find another material to wrap the pipe that won't conduct heat (I would have said chains but for that). Those bright yellow nylon ropes might be cool as an accent.

    I think your shower will work better than a tub in the long, narrow space, but using an architect familiar with the space plan will help. (Do you like how your friend's room turned out?)

    Glad you enjoy the challenge. I love these tricky spaces, too. (My husband teases me that I should design submarines). Please post the "after" pix when you finish. Can't wait for your kitchen....

  • monkeyninja

    Thank you for the tip - I may well increase the door to 27 inches, I will speak to my architect about it. I am a pretty broad shouldered guy so having the extra space may come in handy. I guess the one thing I do need to be considerate of, is that I want to leave enough room after the pocket door has fully recessed, to be able to have a couple of outlets wired (so I need to find out from my electrician and contractor how much space the door needs to recess into. If its 27 inches, then I may not have enough room to squeeze in an outlet.

    i.e. right now a 24 inch door will slide into a 31 inch deep wall - 7 inches of dead space in the wall should be able to accomodate a few outlets. If I get a 27 inch door and center it, then I'll only have 29.5 inches of room in which to slide the door into - so this may make it hard.

    The reason the outlet needs to be on this wall (facing the kitchen) is because one side of the kitchen will all be brick wall (and so I can't put outlets on it!).

    Btw, totally agree on the shower - my friend's construction is still ongoing - the tub looks nice, but a little too claustraphobic for me - since you'd need to step in and over on the narrow part of the tub, while dodging the extended sink vanity haha - would be tough in my view...

    Kitchen design is complete! Pics to follow soon, its exhausting describing all the issues but I'll lay it out for ya!

  • hoping2

    Great that your kitchen layout is worked out! An idea - you might consider using under cabinet outlet strips. They can be combined with under cabinet lighting. Depending on cabinet style, you may need a small lip or apron under the upper cabinets to fully hide them, and maybe a small transformer box (hidden). You could still keep outlets on either or both of the side walls for items you'll be plugging and unplugging often. (The under cabinet strips are a little trickier to plugs things into.). Seems like you are well on your way to a great place!

    monkeyninja agradeció a hoping2
  • Apartment Dweller

    Hi. I'm in NYC as well, and we just finished redoing our small bathroom, so I've dealt with some of the same issues you're dealing with.

    If you want to check out some more toilets, look up the huge Ferguson's showroom. It's on an upper floor in an office building near Bloomingdale's. Simon's Hardware in Murray Hill also has some toilets you can look at.

    Our bathroom is tiny, and the toilet is just inside the door, and the door is only 2' wide. We had to go with a round seat toilet. The edge of the toilet does come right up to the edge of the doorway, but it looks just fine.

    Re. height, I'm 5'1", and those comfort height toilets are really uncomfortable for me, so we went with a standard height. My husband is 5'8" and he says our toilet works fine for him.

    We have one of those steam pipes in our bathroom as well, but it's tucked away in a corner, so it's not a hazard. However, we're considering getting a cover for it when we redo all our radiator covers. This place claims to do steam pipe covers, and if you like a modern look, this option might work for you. http://www.archgrille.com/collections/custom/products/radiator-enclosures

    Hope that helps!

    monkeyninja agradeció a Apartment Dweller
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  • monkeyninja

    @Apartment Dweller - what an awesome link to archgrille - I am going to see if they can't do a cool pipe enclosure which may well work. I'll check out Ferguson's as its close to my office, and I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one with these dilemmas (for more fun reading, see my design dilemma about my bathroom - it'll bring back fun memories, I'm sure). I'm likely to go with a 24 inch door for a variety of reasons - how does the size feel for you guys (ok not you because I'm twice your size - but maybe your husband - does he fit through perfectly fine??).

  • monkeyninja

    @hoping2 - great suggestion, I will talk to my electrician about under-cabinet outlets along with the lighting. I will need all the outlets I can get!

  • Apartment Dweller

    Wow. You're dealing with quite a bit there! I thought I had it bad just selecting materials and tile. :) We didn't move anything around. The 24 inch door was there when we moved in, and it's fine. My husband says it's a bit tight, but it's fine. Here's a shot that shows the top of the toilet tank, the door, steam pipe, and built-in cabinet.

  • monkeyninja
    Selecting materials and tiles are definitely a lot more stressful and time consuming than one would ever imagine! I think I'm there on that front and am just finalizing the logistics. Really the steam pipe is the only darned issue - if there's a way my plumber could shift it, it would solve a whole heap of problems! I will raise that issue with him post-closing before we agree on a game plan!
  • hoping2

    Any updates?

  • monkeyninja
    @hoping2 - sadly the property didn't appraise
  • hoping2

    What a shame - I'm so sorry!

  • monkeyninja
    It's a long story but I made some cosmetic repairs and renovations and it was re-appraised yesterday-- waiting on the results of this, which is key. I'm cautiously optimistic so keep your fingers crossed,I'll know in a few days...
  • hoping2

    Good luck!

  • monkeyninja

    @hoping2 - Good news - I closed last week!!! What a monumental effort, but we finally got there! Now back to all this stuff!!!! I have engaged an architect, and the wheels are now in motion. I owe you some kitchen pics -- I have finished my design and appliance selection!

  • hoping2
    Congratulations!!!! And good luck!
  • monkeyninja

    THANK YOU! It was a huge undertaking. Basically the bank deemed the property to be uninhabitable and said it needed $30,000 of repairs to be considered worthy to lend on (a few banks came to this conclusion). So I put in $1,000 and a whole lot of elbow grease and I learned how to do home repairs, and did it myself. It passed re-inspection --- this was of course the worlds most pointless renovation, since its all coming down again when we demo!

  • monkeyninja

    @hoping2 - as promised - here is a link to the kitchen discussion -- I literally just designed it, and welcome any thoughts - its a 72 inch long galley kitchen - fun...

    https://www.houzz.com/discussions/what-do-you-think-of-my-kitchen-dsvw-vd~3278904


  • Apartment Dweller

    Congrats on your closing!

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