36' frameless induction cooktop for flush mount
I've been looking for a frameless 36" induction cooktop to mount flush with the counter. So far, the only ones I've managed to find are:
- Wolf
- Miele
- Gaggenau
- GE Profile/Monogram
The first 3 are pricey, and the last I worry a little about QC/reliability. I think Fagor is frameless and sits ~1/4" up on the countertop, so that's close (but it cannot be flush-mounted).
Of the lot, I think I prefer the Wolf the most. It needs just over 6" clearance, so there may be some minor rejigging of the cabinetry underneath, but we found the controls very easy, and the patterning on the ceran top looked nice and (hopefully) would help hide any scratches.
Any others to consider that I might have missed?
As an aside, I have a mini-rant -- While I'm appreciative of all the information here (and I should never look a gift horse in the mouth), this forum technically has to be the worst platform I've ever used. I originally posted this in another thread dating to 2008:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg07080137754.html
But my comment doesn't bring the thread to the front, and the only way I was actually able to even find that thread was through a google search. Go figure.
Comentarios (49)
julieh1926
hace 13 añosI can't speak to induction, but I wanted to add in some thoughts. We just last week installed a Wolf 36" frameless electric cooktop and just love it. We originally were planning to install it flush, but ended up installing it on top of the counter. We were told by all (appliance guy and counter guy) that if you do flushmount, you can run into more serious problems down the road when/if you have to replace the unit since the hole is cut precisely to size. If you mount on top, you have a little more wiggle room.
Even though our Wolf cooktop is not induction, I can't believe the power the electric puts off and how quickly it heats up. I imagine the induction is fantastic! I love the controls (they're very intuitive) and the patterning on the glass is great. Good luck with your decision!
earthpal
hace 13 añosOriginally I wanted to install our Bosch 36" induction cooktop flush instead on on top. My DH and GC talked me out of it and I glad they did. One is because of what Julieh mentions about the replacement issues. But after having dealing with our less than professional countertop fabricators on other quality issues, I am glad we didn't do this. I highly recommend making sure that your fabricator is okay with this because most of them don't seem to be when I have asked about quality issues with other fabricators.
Good Luck!
bishop8
Autor originalhace 13 añosThanks for the comments all; I'll definitely keep them in mind. I still like the idea of going flush, though. I just imagine crud accumulating along the edges if it's raised.
numbersjunkie
hace 13 añosIf its recessed, I can imagine crud getting into the seam. I think it would be easier to clean crud from the edges!
bishop8
Autor originalhace 13 añosFair point, but I guess this is where the quality of the countertop installer comes into play. Presuming it's cut perfectly tight and some type of sealer is used to fill in the remaining gap, it should make the flush mount easier to clean.
contemporganic
hace 13 añosJust make sure to check the specs and manual on the cooktop you are interested in first. I believe all of the induction cooktops I reviewed said that you are NOT to seal/ glue the cooktop down onto the counter...whether it is flush mounted or not.
texaskitchentoo
hace 13 añosDo yourself a favor and don't try to flush mount the induction cooktop. It would be a very fussy fit. Even if the cut is off 1/32" your eye will spot it. Putting a sealant in the gap may well void your warranty. My E'Lux icon specifically states not to put any sealant around the edge. If it is sealed down it will make it difficult to service, maybe even damaging the top to remove it. If you don't put a sealant then there will be crud building up in that gap far more than under a top mount. Our is top mounted and we have no problem at all. So if your installer cuts the opening 1/32" off, are you going to convince them to trash that slab and try again? 1/16"??? what will be the agreed to criteria be before they eat the cost, or you live with the result? Maybe the only available replacement stone doesn't match the adjacent stone? I see no upside to flush mounting and many downsides.
cotehele
hace 13 añosI like the flush mount. Pictures and comments pro and con on the Kitchen Forum.
Here is a link that might be useful: Flush Mount Cooktops
bishop8
Autor originalhace 13 añosThanks for the comments everyone, pro and con. I've still got some time to decide, so I'll talk with my GC's kitchen guy before the time comes to see what they think. That'll partially help frame my decision on what to buy.
davidro1
hace 13 añosi was willing to go flushmount but talked myself out of it for the same reasons described above. I spent the money on getting a reverse bevel edge on the counters instead.
Randy Smith
hace 8 añosWARNING -- FLUSH MOUNT HORROR STORY: I purchased a Gaggenau induction cooktop, and it's fantastic. However, the flush mount specifications call for approximatly an extra 3/16 inch gap all around, which is way too much! There is no way an induction frame needs that kind of thermal expansion room. Then they want you to fill that yawning gap with silicon. And bead of silicon 3/16" wide around the entire thing? No way!
Also the depth of the cut is greater than the thickness of the stainless frame, so I'll have to shim that up somehow.
Sadly, I didn't look into this in advance, as the showroom has a smaller opening I didn't realize it was not to spec. My decision though is literally cast in stone. I am looking into fabricating a stainless frame that can support the cooktop frame, and span the gap converting it into a surface mount of some weird form.
zippitydoodaday
hace 8 añosThank you for the horror story warning. I was leaning toward flush mount of my Gaggenau so that my stove top is flush with my counter for when I am not using the stove top. I think I will ask my fabricator how large the gap will be. 3/16" does sound large.
kaseki
hace 8 añosI certainly wouldn't specify a flush-mount cut-out until I had the cooktop in hand to measure, including measurement of squareness. One may want to provide it to the fabricator to use as a go/no-go tool.
Cutting out a silicone seal to release the unit for repair might prove very difficult.
Using soapstone for the cooking counter surface instead of granite will make practical (albeit with a mess) any in situ increases in cut-out dimensions that might be needed.
It is bad enough with so many diverse cut-out dimensions restricting choices or replacement induction cooktops, but with flush mounting this becomes even more restrictive when the alternative is a repair approaching the cost of the original cooktop.
Randy Smith
hace 8 añosUpdate: in my case the contractor raised the cooktop to surface mount level and fabricated an extra stainless frame surround that amazingly fits perfectly, as though it was designed that way. It looks great now, so happy ending, although I didn't get the flush effect I was hoping for. It's not really a big deal to me.
dbabrams
hace 8 añosThat came out nice. We just installed a 30" Miele. I was planning on flush mounting, but the fabricator assumed a surface mount and installed it that way. After much discussion and research, we've decided it was probably a better idea anyway.
Bruce Johnson
hace 8 añosI am looking for the same, GE has informed me that the Monogram induction top is flush mounted. My goal is to be able to squeegie the entire counter top. The other plus with an induction top is that you can place a sheet of parchment paper on the induction surface for scratch protection.
Randy Smith
hace 8 añosSqueegee-ing is an interesting idea. In my opinion, it might be a bit of idealized thinking, perhaps quickly found to be more bother than simply a quick wipe down with sponge or paper towel. Also, if you really are committed to that, make certain that the surface itself doesn't have a frame (some GE monograms do). Also, if you have any gap at all around the surface, will crumbs and moisture will get squeegeed in there?
The surface of my induction has proven over this first year to be quite scratch resistant. I have put paper towels over the surface to protect it from splatters when doing bacon (only a couple times a year!) I find the paper towel gets brown, as it is heated up to burning point. Remember the book "Farenheight 451?" 451 is the burn point for paper, and I'm pretty sure sometimes your cooking will get up to near 500 or more degrees (e.g.: a wok will get routinely high like that). So your parchment will probably get browned in circles.Bruce Johnson
hace 8 añosI contacted GE and the new incarnation of the Monogram can be mounted flush, this coupled with the technology of granite water jet cutting (super accurate) and I hope to make a continuous plane.( i.e. if the cutout is dead nuts on, then I can build a supporting base for the height.) The ramifications of doing so would be a super quick clean, even after deep frying. However, the criteria of getting a 50 amp line from my fuse box to the kitchen has it's hurdles in the way of price.
All of this thinking is the result of having a gas cook top for 20 years that takes at least 20 minutes to clean after use and the super slow time to get to a boil.
Randy Smith
hace 8 añosOkay Bruce, good luck I'm sure you'll be happy. I find even my framed unit (see my photos) is super easy to clean. It's a piece of glass! The frame rarely is impacted, but when it is, I just wipe it off too. Are you worried that the step up and down to a frame or to a counter is going to collect grease? It simply hasn't been a big issue during this first year, but that's us.
What I love about it is how it serves as a flat surface. We just lay out dishes across the counter, continuing across the cooktop to serve guests, and during cooking you can have all the ingredients right the on the surface. It was a great decision!
snipely
hace 7 añosExcellent discussion. I'm facing the same decision for my kitchen remodel, with the GE Monogram cooktop. A couple of points -- the install shown at the GE storefront at Merchandise Mart shows a 1/8" gap and the fill-in is not quite flush, so it would definitely trap dirt, which defeats the purpose. It looks huge as well. Also, my thought with a tighter fit is not that there is a need for thermal expansion, but that dropping the unit in while squaring it up has more of a chance of the countertop opening's edge hitting the cooktop edge at a single point, causing a crack. GE supplies a $140(!) kit that consists of a paper template and some double sided tape to help with the flush install. I'm considering filling in the gap with grout or something that will self-level more easily than caulk, which would be difficult to trim flush if filled too high. I think 1/16" gap is a good compromise.
Robert Landers
hace 7 añosWe went with the GE Monogram ZHU36RDJBB and flush mounted it. So far, we love it. Just need to figure out how to seal the edge to prevent crumbs and such from collecting between the two surfaces. The gap is tight but even the smallest particles can get in there.
zippitydoodaday
hace 7 añosGaggenau flush mount induction here. LOVE induction. HATE flush mount. Big mistake. We had a jet water fabricator make the cut out and it still left horrible chips and messy lines, which would have been covered had it not been flush mount. It all has a minimal space, but enough for a pot of boiling liquid to seep down if it boiled over. Would NEVER do flush mount again even if I did a contemporary kitchen again. I read this blog before I made my decision and chose wrong. I hope this helps others not to make the mistake I made.
kaseki
hace 7 añosOne issue with a flush mount is that filling the gap with silicone will make it nearly impossible to remove the unit for servicing without successfully digging out all of the silicone. Instead, try packing the gap with a long length of o-ring material in the diameter needed. If this doesn't look as good as desired, then the o-ring material can be set a bit low and the upper part of the gap filled with silicone. In that case removal will still require silicone cutting, but pulling the o-ring strip out once the end is found should help clear the silicone and free the cooktop.
Example o-ring material may be found at McMaster-Carr (see link below). The square stock Viton(R) or silicone material would resist anything you would likely put in contact with it. I would not use silicone packing if I intended to put silicone sealant in contact with it without testing first.
sherri1058
hace 7 añosI also read everything here and almost decided against the flush mount, and perhaps against my better judgement decided to go ahead with it anyway. My biggest concern was the cutout, and what if it needs to be replaced. Decided that if I have to replace the counter or cut a different sized opening I would cross that bridge when it comes.
I have the Miele flush mounted in my soapstone counter. Love it! My
installer did a terrific job and gave me such a tight fit that I have almost no issues with crumbs. In fact, I have fewer crumb issues with the flush mount than I did with my previous range or drop-in sink. I
believe that Miele installation instructions specifically say no
silicone. My cooktop can be lifted up if necessary.zippitydoodaday
hace 7 añosYou are very fortunate, and hope you enjoy your setup. I am going to need to add a cook top trim kit http://www.microtrim.com/cooktop.htm to hide the disastrous mess (marble cracks, as well as, cracks). Our company came highly recommended, but missed the mark by a lot.
grumpypenguin
hace 7 añosWe have the Gaggenau full induction flush-mounted and love it. As with sherri1058's Miele flush mount, our installers did a great job and provided a tight fit. We do have a bit of silicone (or something?) around the cooktop, however. No issue with crumbs so far.
levidrac
hace 6 añosI have a question for Randy Smith: how did your contractor raise your Gaggenau induction cooktop to surface-mount level?
We are in the exact same predicament - we had ours flush-mounted according to specs, and it’s absolutely hideous! We said we weren’t going to splurge for our remodel, but we went all Gaggenau, and to have such a clean, sleek, modern appliance with messy, ugly edges is just eating away at me like acid. What an eyesore. The gap is huge, and it wasn’t possible to match the silicone color to the countertop. We’re remodeling an entire house, but I’m stuck on my Gaggenau problem.
Would you be able to provide specifics regarding the solution? We have a shallow drawer directly underneath the the cooktop, but I will sacrifice it to fix this painful issue. I know your original post was like 3 years ago, but I’m hoping you might remember some details. Thanks!
Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real
hace 6 añosDid you see the picture of the frame his contractor made for the cooktop? Could you have someone copy that?
levidrac
hace 6 añosYes, it’s just gorgeous - it’s exactly what I plan to do. I was just wondering how the contractor managed to lift the cooktop just that tiny bit and then support it when the countertop material already had an opening cut out that was too large to support the edges. Right now our opening is probably about 1/8” too large all around and then has a shallow drawer directly underneath.Rita / Bring Back Sophie 4 Real
hace 6 añosÚltima modificación: hace 6 añosI'm sorry I don't have any insights. Part of the reason I responded was to keep the conversation going in hopes that someone with a clue pipes up. My Gagg cooktop is flush mounted and I am not thrilled about it. I love the way the Miele cooktops stand proud on the counter. They look much better- but by the time I saw that, I had already bought the Gagg ovens and cooktop.
ETA weird spell check- I am not thrilled about it- not I am not will about it.
zippitydoodaday
hace 6 añosGagg here too, installed flush mount, ditto problems. I am appreciative of the photos Randy posted 3 years ago. We installed a sturdy sink mount under the stove to hold it in place. I believe we can raise it using that, and put the frame on it.
BonesDT .
hace 4 añosI know this is old, but thank you kaseki for your very helpful post about the McMaster's o-rings.
What exactly do you mean by "I would not use silicone packing if I intended to put silicone sealant in contact with it without testing first." Is there any concern for bad interaction between silicone sealant and silicone o-ring?? I just spoke with McMaster's and they recommend the silicone o-ring over the Viton because of the high-temperature. They didn't seem concerned about the use of silicone sealant.
Also, exactly which sealant did you guys use? The Miele instructions state "silicone sealant that is heat-resistant to at least 320°F (160°C)." And "For granite and marble tiles, only use silicone sealant that is specially formulated for granite and marble." I cant seem to find a sealant that specifically complies with both requirements. Thanks!kaseki
hace 4 añosÚltima modificación: hace 4 añosBonesDT: Silicon oil will dissolve silicone rubber. Silicone sealant is an unknown to me w.r.t. interaction with a silicone rubber seal (o-ring), so I thought a test would be in order. In any case, the edge of the cooktop at the counter is going to stay cold with induction, particularly if you use silicone pads (3) to space pots and pans off of hobs. Viton is already good for a rather high temperature (you can look it up in lieu of me doing it).
With an o-ring, it is feasible once in a while to pull it and clean all the crumbs out of any gaps. Sealant will avoid that but potentially have other difficulties. I've never hunted for special granite/soapstone silicone sealant, and all the high temperature ones I've ever used automotively were either iron-oxide red or blue.
levidrac: Once upon a time, there were kitchen sinks that were installed semi-flush using a trim kit that supported the sink edge underneath while there was a piece that overlapped the sink on the top, and an extension that rested on the counter. In section it was like a "U" with one side extended downward (in this view). Such sinks made of cast iron and porcelain were heavier than the induction cooktop is.
I should add that my Frigidaire Gallery 36-inch induction cooktop, just as the Kenmore that preceded it, sits on and is supported by the counter. The Gallery is frameless, the Kenmore had a front and rear frame. I don't have a problem cleaning around the Ceran top.
Usuario de Houzz-673314850
hace 3 añosI am currently consider the GE profile flush mount vs a drop in induction cooktop. In europe flush mount cooktops are the standard installation method. So I am a bit unclear why this is such problem in US/Canada. The fabricator has to polish the edges similar to a polish with an undermount sink and router in a lower edge on which the cooktop can sit on. If you download the manual from https://www.geapplianceparts.com/store/parts/spec/JXFLUSH1 it does show the installation process which looks pretty simple. I am currently interviewing granite fabricators to see if they can offer this (with confidence). Otherwise the frigidaire drop in is my back up plan.
Robert Landers
hace 3 añosGo with the flush mount. When our countertop was being fabricated we took the top to them. The fit was perfect. Nice and smooth transition from the countertop to the cooktop.
Lana Shulman
hace 2 añosI know it’s an old post but trying with question. I have a Bosch induction cooktop and debating flush mount or drop in. It doesn’t say anywhere in the specs it can be installed flush but fabricators says it might be possible. Of coarse I like flush mount more but not sure if it’s suitable for Bosch. (I saw the comments about issues with taking it out for service, but is there other issues I should be aware of)?
BonesDT .
hace 2 añosWhat model is it? I have the Miele KM 6375. I specifically chose this model because at that time (3 years ago) I was told it was the only cooktop (along with it's Gaggenau sibling) that would mount true frameless and flush. The biggest hurdle is finding a competent countertop person to make the intricate cut for the flush mount. The cut has to be perfect with tight tolerances, otherwise it wont sit perfectly flush or it will have a large gap around it. Look for a big countertop company that has big machines like laser cutters and if they have any hesitancy about what a true "flush" cooktop is, then move on.
I've noticed the majority of kitchen contractors do not understand what a true "flush" cooktop means. Every time I used the word "flush" they assumed I meant a cooktop that stuck up above the countertop nominally and had a frame. I cant imagine how that could be perceived as "flush", but the majority of contractors considered that "flush". Make sure you have that conversation explaining flush means completely flat with the countertop. In other words, if you rolled a ball across your countertop and past your cooktop, there should be no interruption in the roll.
If you get a perfect cut, then you don't necessarily have to seal the cooktop in. It will get some gunk down there over time, but since it's not sealed in, you can lift the cooktop up, prop it up, and clean, but be careful, because it's heavy and there are sharp edges of metal underneath (my wife cut herself bad). So if it ever needs to be serviced, it can simply be lifted out of the countertop. I actually went over a year with my cooktop not sealed in place because I had to have my countertop changed twice for unrelated reasons. During that time, one of the cooktop fan motors sucked in a piece of packing Styrofoam and I had to have it serviced and the Miele rep was very pleased to see I hadn't sealed the cooktop in yet.
I have since sealed it with silicone; however, I used the trick her to pack the gap with o-ring material first, then put the silicone on top. This way, if it does have to get service, I should just be able to use a knife to cut the top layer of silicone and even use the end of the o-ring to peel the rest off. Otherwise, the silicone could seep all the way down the gap and even underneath the cooktop mount and really permanently adhere the cooktop to your countertop.
No matter how you slice it, yes, flush mounted is going to be harder to service. Pretty much anything that looks super modern and clean will be harder to service by nature. But IMO it's well worth it. I cant think of anything more show-stopping than a perfectly flush induction cooktop. Definitely a head-turner when guests see it. Cleaning the cooktop is a breeze too.
PROPM Project Management
hace 2 añosÚltima modificación: hace 2 añosIf you want a flush mount, stick with the brands that allow a flush mount. Your designer should not be suggesting branching out into a non specified install unless she can afford to replace it all.
Lana Shulman
hace 2 añosI got the countertop installed today, however after I agreed on the drop in installation they still cut it fir flush mount:( I like the way it looks however there are tiny gaps, the edges look perfect but this gaps would really bother me.). It was their mistake so I can request to redo the whole piece (it made of 2) but that means they will have to cut the seam and all edges that are already fixed in place. I think it will create even more mess:(. My main concern here is that Bosch doesn’t offer flush mount in their instructions. Would it mean it’s not safe for appliance?
Lana Shulman
hace 2 añosAlso the cooktop is not fixed (attached ) to the counter with supplied brackets. That’s probably the reason in some places it’s a tiny bit lower than in other.
Lana Shulman
hace 2 añosDon’t know what to do, should I request to redo? And go with drop in option or should I leave it as it is?
Tommy Lee
hace 2 añosI would need to see closer pics of said gap but I think it looks awesome. Maybe the installer would be inclined to offer a slight discount,
venexiano
hace 2 añosHi, I am planning to buy Miele 6365 induction cooktop, it is basically the same as 6375 but 30"instead of 36". I love how it looks in your picture @BonesDT . However, I wanted an Italian porcelain countertop (Infinity surface) and my fabricator (great reviews, seems the best in town) said he doesn't do flush cooktops with porcelain. Questions:
1) Do you know of any issues/difficulties of having a flush mount with porcelain?2) Do you know if I can install that 6365 cooktop, which the specs and manual mention to be flush mount, as drop in? Because I like the 6365 much better than the nonflush mount option, the 6360, which has a stainless edge (I like it all black). I would be fine with a drop-in all black with no stainless edge, so dropping in the 6365 would be a good trade-off. Here is theMiele manual with installation details for the experts.
BonesDT .
hace 2 añosI am just a lay person and know nothing about this stuff other than what I had to figure out for my journey.
The Miele manual says on p. 60 "Flush installation is only possible in natural-stone (granite, marble), solidwood, and tiled countertops. Certain cooktops are suitable for building into glass countertops – these are labeled accordingly. When using a countertop made from any other material, please check first with the countertop manufacturer that it is suitable for installing a flush cooktop."
So you might want to call Infinity to discuss if a flush mount is possible. Your fabricator may just be wanting to be ultra cautious, so you could get some other opinions.
No sure what you mean by "drop in". The manual uses 3 different terms: "flush", "framed" (p. 58), and "proud". It's very confusing. But after some research, it appears the 6365/6375 must only be installed flush (as confirmed on p. 4/8 here: http://documents.designerappliances.com/Specification-Sheet-KM6365.pdf).
This makes sense, because I was trying to picture a 6365/6375 mounted as "proud" and it certainly would not look nice and definitely prone to damage.
In other words, if you cannot do flush, then you must get a 6360/6370/6377 to mount either framed or proud (I suppose this just means same installation as a typical framed unit, just minus the actual frame).
Hope that helps. Good luck.
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Randy Smith