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plusarchitecture

Kohler Villager? Did I make the wrong choice?

Melody Meek
hace 14 años

We're getting ready for a main bathroom remodel in the beginning of April. We'll be putting in a soaking tub for a few reasons.

-I miss baths, though DH could care less.

-Resale - it seems like at least one tub is a good idea.

-When kids are in the picture, a tub would be extremely useful.

However, it's in an alcove and will generally be used for showering. Currently we have a 30"x5' walk in shower stall. The extra space is nice, but we'll *eventually* do a walk in shower for the master suite and this will become the kid's bath.

Yesterday, I bought a brand new Kohler Villager at an auction for next to nothing - $70.

However, now I'm second guessing.

Pros:

+It's cast iron - durable.

+It was dirt cheap, yet is still good quality.

Cons:

-It's heavy - we'll be installing it ourselves.

-It's shallow. If we're getting it to take a bath, I'd like to enjoy the bath. Otherwise, why not stay with the shower and have more room?

-I haven't had cast iron - I wonder about it cooling down the water.

What would you do? Try to sell it and get something else? Or go with it and get one of these? Bottomless Bath Overflow Drain Cover

Respuesta destacada
  • PRO
    Reid Plumbing Co.
    hace 6 años

    There are several positive things you should know about the Kohler Villager. First it is a model that has been around for a long time. Might tell you that this is because the tub is one of there cheapest models of cast iron so it is popular and is built well as I haven't seen any that I remember having rust coming up through the under side and I have seen this in some where it is under the finish and you can see a rust color. usually by the drain or overflow where the finish ends not far. Besides it being 316 pounds and seemingly difficult to handle. It happens to be the easiest tub to install for me. I have been plumbing for 30 years so I have a few tricks under my sleeve. In a one story house, I can get the tub off my truck and inside the house to the bathroom and even install it by my self. A steel tub weighs so much less but more difficult to install. one of the reasons are a tub opening is usually 60-1/4" as the framer will almost always give you that 1/4" to help ease a tub in, so a steel tub is almost always a little over 60" and mostly is 60-1/4" so no play to help you out where as the Kohler is around 59-1/2" to 59-3/4" always and never has been 60" so right off you have a advantage. even if the framer didn't give and more than 60 or perhaps right under then it still works. Another thing that will help is that with a Villager the height of the tub is around 14" so to get it in place you tilt it on the apron and of course should use a blanket or throw down under the apron to protect the finish and push it in a angle as far as it will allow and then you almost have the room to straiten it so all you need to do so pick up one side and scoot it in between the studs as studs are for most of them 14-1/2" and the tub being 14" it fits. then you will be able to straiten the tub with the wall. probably at this point you are now too close to the back wall to lay the tub down but it works. just start by scooting the tub out from the wall as far as you can or need and start leaning it back into place. if it is still too close then let it lean onto the wall and can grab by the backside with you leaning your self over the tub and give a little jerk and the weight of the tub will help you with pushing the front of the tub out ward for you while you try to keep it from coming down too hard. one more thing that you must not forget. as you are leaning over and have a lot of weight in your hand, you want to ease it down with out having to stop and reverse the move because you just now realized there is a tub ledger under the lip and will smash the living heck out of your fingers also a possible freeze block that the framer put there for sheet rock backing. I use what is known as tub hangers so they don't get put in until the tub is set and wiggle them in between the tub and stub to support and level the tub. if you use a 2x4 ledger instead, you can use a pry bar to set between the ledger and tub, when you get close to sitting on the ledger then stick the angle end of the pry bar in between tub and ledger to save your fingers. this all takes me about fifteen minutes, that is how easy can be but I have a few under my belt so don't race time, instead think about the quality of product that will be there, cast iron and not steel or fiber glass which is okay if that is your choice, just don't choose be cause your thinking how hard it is. steel tub is not 14" like the villager, nope they are commonly 15" and that is 1/2" to much to install this way

    I hope this post can be of help to anyone that is attempting this, my 30 years of schooling the hard lessons to give you the answers good luck.


    • Comentarios (27)

    • girlcat36
      hace 14 años

      If it's shallow, I'd get rid of it. I just finished my bath remodel and had a Kohler Bancroft soaking tub installed. Taking a bath in an extra deep tub is amazing; one of the better choices in my remodel.

    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 14 años

      I have a variant of the Bottomless Bath thing (I think mine is called Deepwater Bath) and it helps some, but not a lot. The Villager is really shallow, a good tub for people who don't really want a tub for bathing but must have one to meet code, or for people who only bathe small children or dogs. It's not totally hateful, but it's not a luxurious soak, either. (I don't have a villager but my mom did, in the retirement apt she had for a while, so I've used them.)

      However, cast iron is the very best for holding heat, better than any alternative except a tub with a heater built in.

      Incidentally, if you decide to keep the Villager, rather than the tacky plastic thing, I'd look into this. More depth and it doesn't fall off, if it can fit the villager.

      Here is a link that might be useful: deep soak drain

    • judithn
      hace 14 años

      I'm pretty sure the Deep Soak Drain is only for American Standard tubs, the Evolution tubs to be exact. The Evolution is actually a pretty good model for a small space. I know it's available at Home Depot. Our local store has several on the floor, maybe yours does too and you can go see it. One problem I've heard about cast iron is that it it's very heavy. When I was tub shopping the sales person said some houses can't support a big cast iron tub. Yours doesn't sound that big but I'd check anyway.

    • palimpsest
      hace 14 años

      The Deep Soak drain on the American Standard website says it will fit on all standard tubs. I would verify this, but it is right on their website.

      I would be really surprised if a house that has always had a bathroom in it (as opposed to an older house where a bathroom was added to an existing room) was understructed enough that a conventionally-sized cast iron bathtub would be too heavy.

    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 14 años

      Yes, as palimpsest says, they have another model of deep soak drain that is designed specifically for the Evolution line, but they do make a deep soak that is supposed to be universal--haven't yet tried it myself, and if I decide to keep my current tub it's American Standard anyway, so I can't say from personal experience what they include in "all standard".

      It's vaguely possible that you may need additional support for cast iron (if the current tub is steel or fiberglass, for instance), but not so likely with the villager. Still, a good idea to check.

    • PRO
      Melody Meek
      Autor original
      hace 14 años

      Hm. Very helpful.

      I think we're okay support-wise - we have a 1912 house, so I'm assuming it was originally cast iron. It was replaced with a fiberglass walk in shower by the older couple who owned it before us. We're going down to the studs and replacing the wall at the end of the tub spot, so the size is flexible and we would add extra reinforcing if needed. However, the more I think about moving the cast iron up the stairs, the more intimidated I become...

      Thanks for the input so far...the jury's still out.

      Anyone had a good experience long-term with a non-stainless steel tub?

    • jejvtr
      hace 14 años

      Starr

      Cast iron is the BEST tub - think of all the cast iron cookware out there. Because it retains heat

      I have owned Villager in previous homes, yes it is shallow - interesting options above

      you absolutely will need help setting the tub - I had 3 big plumbers carry our Kohler cast iron up to 2nd floor master

      good luck

    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 14 años

      FWIW, steel is usually considered one of the more low end materials for tubs. Usually reserved for builder's specials, thin and with very poor heat retention. Cast iron beats it all to flinders.

      If you want to look at other tubs, the Kohler Archer is nice, but it's acrylic, not metal. However, it gives a very deep bath for the size of the tub because of the special drain system.

    • kitchenkrazed09
      hace 14 años

      We have the Kohler Seaforth cast iron tub, which virtually has the same dimensions as the Villager, except it is 54" long. It took two strong guys to carry it up to our second floor. We installed it ourselves and added extra bracing to the floor. According to the Kohler web site, the spec sheet for the Villager K-715 shows that the tub is 316 pounds (this is without the weight of water and a person bathing) and the "Floor support under the bath must provide for a minimum of 49 lbs/square foot loading."

      Cast iron is known for its excellent heat retention. Ours retains heat beautifully. It's installed in the family bathroom and also has a shower. It is definitely a shallow tub. We are remodeling our master bathroom and will install a deep soaking tub there (currently planning on another Kohler cast iron). Will this be the only tub in your house? (You definitely should have at least one if you intend to sell your home at some point.) I would say if you are planning a second tub for your master bathroom, a shallow tub for bathing children and pets is a good idea and you might want to keep the Villager. It will be easier to bathe them rather than reaching over the height of a deep tub. It is also more awkward to step into a deep tub if you are using it mainly as a shower. However, if it will be your only tub, I guess you have to weigh those things against how important taking a more luxurious bath is to you.

      All in all, I know how it is to get a great deal, but if the tub doesn't work for your needs, don't suffer with it just because it was a bargain. Hope I've helped and haven't confused you more!

      Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler Villager Spec Sheet

    • pamelas_kitchen
      hace 14 años

      I don't want to be controversial, but I went from a cast iron tub on an outside wall in a 1919 house to a Kohler Archer acrylic tub. With much trepidation (plastic, cheap looking, not period appropriate, not holding heat, etc.).

      My husband and I take baths every single day. I have no scientific proof but we both have the experience that the acrylic tub holds heat longer than the cast iron tub did. My husband's baths are long-term affairs. He always needed to refill the tub with additional hot water with the cast-iron tub. And he never does with the acrylic tub.

      The Archer does indeed hold more water than our old tub--the overflow is higher and the sides deeper. So maybe the additional amount of water helps, and that foam insulation was added makes a difference. But I can absolutely state from experience that our baths are longer and do not cool off as fast.

      Aesthetically I am not bothered as I thought I would be by a plastic tub. The design is pretty minimal, it's easy to keep clean (though there are some design features I would change). And I assure you looks were a big concern. I actually like that it's lighter. But I would never try to convince someone based on personal taste. Just wanted to comment on the heat retention discussion.

      In terms of your question about the Villager, I would definitely say that you should NOT put this tub in and instead get a deeper one. A $70 mistake is not a giant one in the world of remodeling. If you want to soak, deeper is better and is available to you in your space. If you decide acrylic is an option, I would recommend the Archer (though it is narrow, it makes up for it in depth). Otherwise, certainly there are deeper cast-iron tubs available too.

    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 14 años

      > that foam insulation was added makes a difference

      Yes, it surely does.

    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 14 años

      hit post too soon. I also agree that if you're hesitant about the villager, I'd just craigslist it if you can find something that you think you'll like better, whatever the material. At that price you ought to be able to break even on it, or very nearly.

    • kitchenkrazed09
      hace 14 años

      I'll bet you could get $175-$200 for it easily, depending on your area.

    • astridh
      hace 14 años

      Pamela, is the Archer comfortable for long soaks? I am especially interested in how comfortable it is for reading, which I like to do in the tub. What length do you have?

    • PRO
      Melody Meek
      Autor original
      hace 14 años

      Hm. I think I may be getting convinced. kitchenkrazed, you're right, I could probably get 175 for it. I can just think of it as 100 off our future tub. I'm leaning towards the archer - it caught my eye when I first started looking. I love the style, and the fact that it allows for deep baths AND a low step over for showers and washing kids and dogs, since that will probably happen more often than baths anyways.

      Any other happy or unhappy archer owners out there? Cleaning, durability, comfortability, affordability? Any others I should look at?

    • live_wire_oak
      hace 14 años

      "However, it's in an alcove and will generally be used for showering."

      Then you will need a tub that has an integral tile flange, NOT a drop in tub. To otherwise is to invite moisture damage into your home.

    • pamelas_kitchen
      hace 14 años

      Hi astridh, yes, the Archer is comfortable for long soaks, at least according to my husband, who is a marathon bather. He takes books, wine, music and spends quite a bit of time in the tub. I think he brought the taxes in last night. I am a more utilitarian.

      I have the 60 inch tub. I did have room in my space for the 66 inch but ended up choosing the shorter one. Here's a picture:

      From Bathroom

      I really like the tub. The things to know are that it is narrow, it has these odd semi-armrest things that I never use, and there is a sloped back that makes the tub seem shorter than the cast-iron one I used to have. I find none of these things a problem, just wanted to let you know that the interior might initially feel less spacious if you come from a traditional tub like I did. This is just fyi--I have absolutely no regrets about my choice and would do it again.

      I sat in a bunch of tubs, from a really high-end 24-inch-deep cast-iron tub to other Kohler acrylic models, to Totos (I'm really glad I tested these because to me they were not comfortable, though I had originally planned to order a cast iron one online). I guess I would say really try to sit in them if you can.

    • single_digit
      hace 14 años

      Dunno if this makes a difference, but I think the Archer is a 32", not 30" as your current shower is. If your alcove is deep enough and you can move the plumbing it won't be a problem and you will have lots of options on deeper tubs (For example, using a jacuzzi tub without the jacuzzi). If these aren't options though you are setting yourself up for problems (everything will be off by an inch). We had to replace our 30" tub with another 30" a couple of months ago. We had an old ragged cast iron tub that we busted up and removed. We ended up going acrylic for a few reasons.
      -weight (obviously)
      -depth (I couldn't find a 30" x 60" cast iron tub with any depth). This immediately ruled out the villager.
      -steel will scratch and rust
      -Americast has a bad rep. Everyone I heard from said it is near impossible to install without damaging the porcelain surface (it tends to flake).
      We went with the Veritek Swanstone acrylic tub after much research. I haven't used it yet, but it does have good reviews and decent depth. You can't really find a 30" tub over 16" deep, but this is a full 16" whereas the villager is actually way less than 15" when it is all said and done. It is also very reasonably priced. We only paid a little over $200 total.

      There is a trade off on Cast Iron/Acrylic. Cast Iron holds heat better overall, but it takes that heat out of the water. Basically it absorbs the heat (cools the water) and then slowly re-radiates it back). An acrylic tub will not pull the heat out, but it also won't radiate it back. Insulation would be a good idea. If you go acrylic be sure to lay a mortar bed under it. Even if it isn't required, it will make the tub feel more substantial and less flimsy.

      Here is a link that might be useful: Veritek Swanstone

    • PRO
      Melody Meek
      Autor original
      hace 14 años

      We'll be rebuilding the current wall at the end of the shower (very flimsy) and redoing the plumbing (my dad, who's a plumber, is coming to help out for a week)...so, the 32" won't be an option.
      Live wire oak...yes, I was originally worried about it being a drop in, but when I searched again I saw that the archer does come in an alcove with skirt version that has a flange, so it's all good.
      I'm still kicking myself for not getting this swanstone for 100 -
      http://www.efaucets.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=71111122-0amp;cm_mmc=portals-_-NexTag-_-product-_-71111122-0
      Se la vie. Thank you all, I think I'm going for it.

    • latke
      hace 14 años

      I'm not allowed to replace the tub with a shower in my co-op and was wondering if the Villager was the best choice for someone who needs to stand up and shower in a tub-like space. I never bathe, and need to find a tub that has maximum standing room.

    • youngdeb
      hace 14 años

      "AND a low step over for showers and washing kids and dogs, since that will probably happen more often than baths anyways. "

      We put the Archer in our kids bath last year, and I have to say, I'm glad they're old enough for showers, because it's too deep for washing babies! My back would be a wreck if I tried to wash toddlers in there every night, and as for the dog...I have to climb in there with him and use the handheld. As it is, my above-average height 6-year-old holds my hand to step in, and I have to give the 4-year old a boost to get in.

      Love the tub, it's still great for us (they're past bath age), but just thought you should know.

    • worthyvess
      hace 5 años
      Thank you so much! I want a villager and this will help my contractor.
    • blondelle
      hace 5 años
      Be aware that you can buy on Amazon a plastic piece for about $10 that allows you to override the overflow so you can fill the tub higher with more water if you wanted.
    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 5 años
      Última modificación: hace 5 años

      That's what we were talking about many years ago in the first part of this thread, blondelle. They kind of work, but they do let water through to the overflow, too.

    • blondelle
      hace 5 años

      I bought a Villager for a rental unit. An older person will have a problem getting in and out of a deeper tub. My co-op apt. came with a 14" tub and I'm taking it out and replacing with a shower. I never take baths and don't want to sit on hard cast iron.

    • writersblock (9b/10a)
      hace 5 años

      I can honestly say that I've never noticed that it's noticeably harder sitting on cast iron than on other tub materials.

      FWIW, the assisted living place my mom lived during her last years had villagers in the bathrooms that had tubs (her apt had a shower-only master and a villager in the guest bath).

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