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hzdeleted_10624875

Electric Outlets on my Island!

User
hace 9 años
I noticed the two electrical outlets on my new island are located on the baseboards on each end!? My general contractor said they are usually installed there nowadays. I expected them to be up higher on the wainscot on the back of the island for ease of access/use. He told me to just use an extension cord. Are they really normally installed on the baseboards nowadays - so people are using extension cords?!
Respuesta destacada
  • PRO
    PPF.
    hace 9 años
    Have the cabinetmaker build new drawer boxes that are shorter.

    Comentarios (39)

    • hayleydaniels
      hace 9 años
      I have no idea, but I can tell you this as the wife of a firefighter--a business that uses extension cords to connect a bunch of stuff won't pass their fire inspection. My husband was working in the fire marshall's office earlier this year awaiting surgery for an on the job injury, and was telling me how his dad's church didn't meet the fire codes due to their over use of extension cords. He helped them put their surge protectors where they would do the most good so he could pass them.

      I would insist the outlets be where you can easily access them. This guy is either lazy or doesn't know what he's doing.
      User agradeció a hayleydaniels
    • glschisler
      hace 9 años
      Extension cords are a hazard in the kitchen. Kitchen appliances have short cords for the reason long cords are a hazard. Get them installed higher.
      User agradeció a glschisler
    • ginny4440
      hace 9 años
      Ridiculous. Tell him you want them installed higher on the counters. Where I live I think it would be a code issue if you had to use an extension cord to use an appliance. Our island has a bit of a raised counter and the outlets are in the little backslash area...on the perimeter counters they are directly under the cabinets.
      User agradeció a ginny4440
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      Thanks you guys! I just got off the phone with him and diplomatically shared ALL my concerns with him and his crew (boy, remodeling is fun isn't it?!) He just checked and there is not room on the sides because of the drawers and there is only 1 inch in back. Because of my inept cabinet designer (who owns his own business selling inset cabinets!) who didn't add this into our design. But then, I did have this G.C. look over his layouts/cabinets before we placed the order. I just told him to move the one facing the kitchen entrance to the long wainscot side on the back (on the baseboard!) and keep the other one facing the oven. At least now I'll be able to put my laptop in the CENTER of my island! There isn't even a cook top on this island. Can you believe this?!
    • PRO
      PPF.
      hace 9 años
      They should be up under the counter, not on the base.
      User agradeció a PPF.
    • PRO
      Arianne Bellizaire Interiors
      hace 9 años
      Here's a solution we came up with for our new home. The outlet strip is installed along the side of the top of the island. Much more convenient for us especially because of the design and style of our island.
      User agradeció a Arianne Bellizaire Interiors
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      We just talked again. I don't want to be the one to have to pay for this. The "kitchen designer" didn't give us guidance about this. After talking to the G.C., I'm thinking to either reduce the length or width of the top drawers so the outlets can be on the ends or wainscot back. I don't know...which do you all think?
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      I forgot to say, he said the new baseboard molding won't allow for any electrical outlets because it's not flat. This above outlet strip might be the best solution...
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      He just called me. We can bypass the cabinet guy and go with this outlet strip above without contacting the inept cabinet guy. Doing this won't require any cabinetry changes. Thank you SO MUCH Arianne for your advice and photo!! There's plenty of space above the doors between where the granite will be. I'll have him do it on the end facing the oven so it's not visible upon entry or on the long, very beautiful wainscot side. (I am amazed that we're spending so much money on these quality cabinets and they didn't ask or catch this before today!)
    • PRO
      PPF.
      hace 9 años
      Could you post a picture of the island?
      User agradeció a PPF.
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      You're communicating with a fairly computer illiterate person! Plus we just bought a new digital camera so I don't yet know how to download the photos and email them. But picture this: A GORGEOUS cherry island with two sets of three-drawers, inset, with two "furniture ends" on each end. The wainscot isn't on yet but I think there will be 4 or 6 furniture ends on that.
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      Where do I buy this outlet strip, Arianne?
    • PRO
      Christine Austin Design
      hace 9 años
      If the space available for the plug is on the back of the drawer cabinet, then ppf's suggestion is pretty much industry standard. I sometimes put plugs in the kicks if they are for the vacuum or some other device that is required for the floors and only plugged in while it is being used. I have also mounted plugs that are below the eating bar between the drawer boxes ( or if there isn't room then you can shorten the width of the drawer boxes and put spacers on the tracks...a good cabinet installer can make this happen)
      User agradeció a Christine Austin Design
    • PRO
      KR Kitchen Remodeling, LLC
      hace 9 años
      As a designer and contractor the outlet strip is a great solution - they also make shallow depth out-lets which could also work. Now here's the crux, according to CODE you're supposed to have an electrical outlet for every 4 feet of counter space. So depending on the length of your island you may have to have a strip on either end. You can't have it under an over hang, so if you have your counter extended for a bar stool on the ends you won't meet code.

      If you are the person who has caught this 'error' then that tells me you have not pulled permits for this renovation. That could be a problem when you go to sell your home as it has not been properly inspected. If you have pulled permits, then I would have thought the electrical inspector would have had this conversation with your Contractor. If that had happened then I would argue that it's a mistake on the Contractor's part - you certainly didn't tell him to install outlets where he did. If that were the case you could argue the point that he needs to fix the problem at his expense.

      If you find yourself in the middle with the Contractor expecting you to pay for the electrical change as well as for the new (relatively expensive) outlet strips, my suggestion is to take a deep breath, don't lose your cool and very nicely call a meeting with your designer, contractor, electrician, and see who's willing to step up to the plate and fix the problem.

      Remember, we are all human and mistakes/over-looks are part of the process - you'd be doing the designer a favor for future projects by making him acutely aware of the problem. The best designers learn from their own mistakes and strive to not repeat them in the future. Good luck and don't let this spoil the over all experience...
      User agradeció a KR Kitchen Remodeling, LLC
    • lefty47
      hace 9 años
      HI -- Sorry to say but your general contractor is an idiot . Look for a pop up electrical socket for the island . They are about 200 or so but worth every penny . They can be found on Houzz search. Or have the electrician put a socket on the working side on the island up near the top of the cabinet .
      User agradeció a lefty47
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      I'm perusing Lowe's and Home Depot but don't see the outlet strip above...
    • PRO
      Creative Visual Concepts, Kevin Strader
      hace 9 años
      Ours are on either end of the island up higher on the sides. Don't know why they would have to be on the baseboard. Sounds like a very inconvenient location to me. Our cabinets are a brown stain so we went with brown outlets with ORB covers so they matched better.
      User agradeció a Creative Visual Concepts, Kevin Strader
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      Our cabinets are lightly stained cherry. At this point I don't care about the color of the outlet strip since it will be on the oven wall side but my G.C. said he can get it in almond which helps. And there isn't an overhang for guests/stools, it's just a 24-wide with drawers. You all have been VERY helpful, thank you! And yes, human beings are fallible and prone to making mistakes.
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      I mean 24 inches deep (prone to making mistakes!)
    • PRO
      PPF.
      hace 9 años
      I'd try an electrical supply company -- more knowledgeable staff and better selection.
      User agradeció a PPF.
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      I sent the G.C. the above photo of the outlet strip and he said he can get it at Lowe's or Home Depot in almond in a 3-outlet - and hopefully 4-outlets (for more usage). I like this solution better than the other alternatives especially since it will only be seen on the oven wall side - because matching plates then matching outlets to the plates would be another problem (with light-stained cherry).
    • PRO
      Twin Lions Contracting Ltd.
      hace 9 años
      A few notes for you:
      - the outlets are not allowed to be in the baseboard for quite a few reasons. Also its incredibly inconvenient for you.
      - the best option is shorter drawers to allow for the outlet box to be mounted up high behind the drawer.
      - As it is code to have the outlets in the island, your GC and cabinet guy should have known this. Therefore you should not be charged for the alterations if they coordinated everything. I'm not sure of your situation though so it may be different for you.
      - the pop up plug is a great option as well. However it would still require you to alter the drawer boxes as well as cut through the counter top. If the tops are already installed, that can be difficult.

      Hope this helps
      User agradeció a Twin Lions Contracting Ltd.
    • PRO
      Adrian J. Naquin Interior Design L.L.C.
      hace 9 años
      This is a great example of hiring the wrong person for the job. He can sell the hell out of cabinets, but obviously doesn't do a good job of providing all the info. Additionally it is wise if not required that the outlet be GFI protected , the Baseboard location is not prevalent in ANY homes I have ever seen. possibly even negligent ( wet mop scenario danger, too far away to be usable, cord hanging out there trip hazard) IMO It all comes down to what the plan shows - who drew (the outlet) , what kind and where , if the cab guy forgot to include he should pay to fix, if the contractor added it because of code requirements related to number of outlets in room he should have mentioned it and asked where you want it first. This is an example of why you should hire a professional interior designer who is not only designing the cabinets but is also concerned with ease of utilization ( need electrical power here) and the code requirements ( how many and what kind) No other trade will look out for the owner in a holistic manner when designing a home.
      User agradeció a Adrian J. Naquin Interior Design L.L.C.
    • PRO
      Kent Halex Architecture
      hace 9 años
      Wow, lot's of great feedback and ideas. Here's one more. This is something we often do on islands large enough to have legs at the seating areas..
      User agradeció a Kent Halex Architecture
    • lefty47
      hace 9 años
      HI -- Just want to remind you ..... every time the contractor gets something for you ... there is a fee for that - 40 % or more . There are things you should get yourself and that would save you time and money . I wouldn't put faith in this contractor because he is not very up on things . In other words ... he doesn't know what the #&^%$ he is doing or talking about .
      User agradeció a lefty47
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      That is a smart way to go for the way island outlets (we just have the two base drawers for our island). And, Adrian, you're right. When I researched $350 an hour for an interior designer - and heard that there services never end (so you pay, pay, pay) - and when I saw the latest furnishings in Ethan Allen - I decided I could do the interiors myself (me and my husband). However, I know exactly what you mean, an interior designer would have been very helpful to provide me guidance the cab guy and G.C. didn't know or neglected to share.
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      I never thought about that, glschisler (above). There is a reason electric cords are the length they are. All very helpful information!!
    • PRO
      KR Kitchen Remodeling, LLC
      hace 9 años
      If you google TASK lighting you'll find the strip outlets - I'm not familiar with Lowes and Home Depot's inventory - it's possible you'll find them there. I'm not a fan of the TASK strips either as they are ugly - sorry. Had you been able to install regular outlets they do make wood outlet covers that can then be stained to match your cabinets. Not every cabinet company provides that service - it's a detail that you'll find high end designers using. I'm glad you appreciate my earlier input - I wish you well on your project.
      User agradeció a KR Kitchen Remodeling, LLC
    • PRO
      Cheryl Khan
      hace 9 años
      What happens in the case of a flood or spilled milk. Not a good idea. Like hayleydaniels said, extension cords aren't a good idea. They can heat up and cause fires, especially if you're using cheap knock off brands.
      User agradeció a Cheryl Khan
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      I know. I was just thinking about that. What could happen if I say wiped the wet sponge too far down alongside the edge of the granite. This reason might be why my G.C. thinks that definitely the granite will need to overhang on that end.
      The looks of the outlet strip doesn't visually bother me on the WHITE cabinets (photo above) so long as I don't see it walking into my kitchen. But it is more of a consideration on my lightly-stained cherry cabinets. When we were designing the kitchen, I CERTAINLY would have ordered the drawers less wide to accommodate outlets but unfortunately I didn't foresee that issue back then.
    • Emery Sivak
      hace 9 años
      Also consider that the power at the island must be protected by a ground fault interrupt, the outlet with the button on it to reset if the circuit overloads. In most of the country this is Building code and could be problematic when you sell your home or dangerous if you spill liquid and it runs over the edge of the counter and gets the outlet wet. Don’t settle for an easy fix when it is potentially dangerous situation. A competent wood worker can notch the drawer box just enough to make room for an outlet and place it in the correct position on the side or back of the Island, usually no more than 6" below the counter top.
      User agradeció a Emery Sivak
    • User
      Autor original
      hace 9 años
      Thank you for your advice. I am discussing your idea with our G.C. This seems like the safer route - if the outlet strip won't have a GFI and move it down a bit. It appears that the one in the above photo does not have a GFI.
    • PRO
      PPF.
      hace 9 años
      You have the option of using a GFI breaker, instead of a GFI receptacle.

      You will need to check with your local code enforcement office on any nonstandard installation.
      User agradeció a PPF.
    • PRO
      jeff wilson architect
      hace 9 años
      This does not meet the requirements of the electrical code, not even close. Electrician should know better (licensed?). I often make a drawer shorter so there is room for box behind.
      User agradeció a jeff wilson architect
    • ginny4440
      hace 9 años
      There is always the potential to,put the outlet inside a cabinet..it's a pain, but it might solve a bit of the issue for a computer if the strip doesn't fit..we put our speaker control and the switch for our above island lights here.. You could feasibly do something similar - sort of like the little narrow spaces some people have just below their stove or sink for the sponges... Flip it open to see the plugs, close it when you are not using them....
      So sorry about your GC...
      User agradeció a ginny4440
    • User
      hace 9 años
      210.52(C) Countertops. In kitchens, pantries, breakfast rooms, dining rooms, and similar areas of dwelling units, receptacle outlets for countertop spaces shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(1) through (C)(5).
      (1) Wall Countertop Spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall countertop space that is 300 mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.

      Exception. Receptacle outlets shall not be required on a wall directly behind a range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink in the installatin described in Figure 210.52(C)(1).
      (2) Island Countertop Spaces. At least one receptacle shall be installed at each island countertop space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater.
      (3) Peninsular Countertop Spaces. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular countertop space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A peninsular countertop is measured from the connecting edge.
      (4) Separate Spaces. Countertop spaces separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1). If a range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink is installed in an island or peninsular countertop and the depth of the countertop behind the range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink is less than 300 mm (12 in.), the range, counter-mounted cooking unit, or sink shall be considered to divide the countertop space into two separate countertop spaces. Each separate countertop space shall comply with the applicable requirements in 210.52(C).
      (5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall be located on or above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above, the countertop. Receptacle outlet assemblies listed for the application shall be permitted to be installed in countertops. Receptacle outlets rendered not readily accessibly by appliances fastened in place, appliance garages, sinks or rangetops as covered in 210.52(C)(1), Exception, or appliances occupying dedicated space shall not be considered as those required outlets.
      Informational Note: See 406.5(E) for requirements for installation of receptacles in countertops.

      Exception to (5): To comply with the conditions specified in (1) or (2), receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base.
      (1) Construction for the physically impaired.

      (2) On island and peninsular countertops where the countertop is flat across its entire surface (no backsplashes, dividers, etc.) and there are no means to mount a receptacle within 500 mm (20 in.) above the countertop, such as an overhead cabinet.
      User agradeció a User
    • PRO
      41 West
      hace 9 años
      To simplify the answer: Outlets should be no more than 18 inches from the edge of the counter top. Simply measure with a tape.
      User agradeció a 41 West
    • User
      hace 9 años
      There is no 18" in the NEC.
      "receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base."
      User agradeció a User
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